How should we understand Gen 31:24 in view of the context (i.e., Laban speaks to Jacob) and an apparent...












3















How should we understand Gen 31:24 in view of the context (i.e., Laban speaks to Jacob) and an apparent Hebrew language nuance?



The King James Version (“KJV”) provides a marginal note at Gen 31:24 that indicates that the text segment “either good or bad” is “from good to bad” in Hebrew.




And God came to Laban the Syrian in a dream by night, and said unto him, Take heed that thou speak not to Jacob either good or bad. {either...: Heb. from good to bad}











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  • Also occurs in II Samuel 13:22 And Absalom spake unto his brother Amnon neither good nor bad.

    – Nigel J
    1 hour ago











  • @NigelJ - Yes. So is this a Hebrew idiom or figure of speech?

    – InfinitelyManic
    1 hour ago






  • 1





    I'm not able to say as I do not have sufficient knowledge of Hebrew. I just remembered the other occurrence of it in English. It seems to mean that one is careful in the presence of someone, neither criticising nor applauding, remaining completely neutral. For different reasons, I would say, from the two occurrences.

    – Nigel J
    34 mins ago


















3















How should we understand Gen 31:24 in view of the context (i.e., Laban speaks to Jacob) and an apparent Hebrew language nuance?



The King James Version (“KJV”) provides a marginal note at Gen 31:24 that indicates that the text segment “either good or bad” is “from good to bad” in Hebrew.




And God came to Laban the Syrian in a dream by night, and said unto him, Take heed that thou speak not to Jacob either good or bad. {either...: Heb. from good to bad}











share|improve this question

























  • Also occurs in II Samuel 13:22 And Absalom spake unto his brother Amnon neither good nor bad.

    – Nigel J
    1 hour ago











  • @NigelJ - Yes. So is this a Hebrew idiom or figure of speech?

    – InfinitelyManic
    1 hour ago






  • 1





    I'm not able to say as I do not have sufficient knowledge of Hebrew. I just remembered the other occurrence of it in English. It seems to mean that one is careful in the presence of someone, neither criticising nor applauding, remaining completely neutral. For different reasons, I would say, from the two occurrences.

    – Nigel J
    34 mins ago
















3












3








3








How should we understand Gen 31:24 in view of the context (i.e., Laban speaks to Jacob) and an apparent Hebrew language nuance?



The King James Version (“KJV”) provides a marginal note at Gen 31:24 that indicates that the text segment “either good or bad” is “from good to bad” in Hebrew.




And God came to Laban the Syrian in a dream by night, and said unto him, Take heed that thou speak not to Jacob either good or bad. {either...: Heb. from good to bad}











share|improve this question
















How should we understand Gen 31:24 in view of the context (i.e., Laban speaks to Jacob) and an apparent Hebrew language nuance?



The King James Version (“KJV”) provides a marginal note at Gen 31:24 that indicates that the text segment “either good or bad” is “from good to bad” in Hebrew.




And God came to Laban the Syrian in a dream by night, and said unto him, Take heed that thou speak not to Jacob either good or bad. {either...: Heb. from good to bad}








hebrew genesis translation-philosophy kjv






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share|improve this question













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edited 1 hour ago









Der Übermensch

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asked 1 hour ago









InfinitelyManicInfinitelyManic

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  • Also occurs in II Samuel 13:22 And Absalom spake unto his brother Amnon neither good nor bad.

    – Nigel J
    1 hour ago











  • @NigelJ - Yes. So is this a Hebrew idiom or figure of speech?

    – InfinitelyManic
    1 hour ago






  • 1





    I'm not able to say as I do not have sufficient knowledge of Hebrew. I just remembered the other occurrence of it in English. It seems to mean that one is careful in the presence of someone, neither criticising nor applauding, remaining completely neutral. For different reasons, I would say, from the two occurrences.

    – Nigel J
    34 mins ago





















  • Also occurs in II Samuel 13:22 And Absalom spake unto his brother Amnon neither good nor bad.

    – Nigel J
    1 hour ago











  • @NigelJ - Yes. So is this a Hebrew idiom or figure of speech?

    – InfinitelyManic
    1 hour ago






  • 1





    I'm not able to say as I do not have sufficient knowledge of Hebrew. I just remembered the other occurrence of it in English. It seems to mean that one is careful in the presence of someone, neither criticising nor applauding, remaining completely neutral. For different reasons, I would say, from the two occurrences.

    – Nigel J
    34 mins ago



















Also occurs in II Samuel 13:22 And Absalom spake unto his brother Amnon neither good nor bad.

– Nigel J
1 hour ago





Also occurs in II Samuel 13:22 And Absalom spake unto his brother Amnon neither good nor bad.

– Nigel J
1 hour ago













@NigelJ - Yes. So is this a Hebrew idiom or figure of speech?

– InfinitelyManic
1 hour ago





@NigelJ - Yes. So is this a Hebrew idiom or figure of speech?

– InfinitelyManic
1 hour ago




1




1





I'm not able to say as I do not have sufficient knowledge of Hebrew. I just remembered the other occurrence of it in English. It seems to mean that one is careful in the presence of someone, neither criticising nor applauding, remaining completely neutral. For different reasons, I would say, from the two occurrences.

– Nigel J
34 mins ago







I'm not able to say as I do not have sufficient knowledge of Hebrew. I just remembered the other occurrence of it in English. It seems to mean that one is careful in the presence of someone, neither criticising nor applauding, remaining completely neutral. For different reasons, I would say, from the two occurrences.

– Nigel J
34 mins ago












2 Answers
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The Hebrew phrase in question is מִטּוֹב עַד־רָע (metov ad ra), literally “from good to bad.”



According to Gesenius on מן...עד (min...ad),1




There are used in opposition to each other—(α) מִן אֶל … from … unto (see אֶל let. a, 1); often for tam, quam, whether, or. Psa. 144:13, מִזַּן אֶל־וַן “from kind to kind,” i.e. things of every kind.—(β) מִן … עִד and מִן … וְעַד. Lev. 13:12, מֵרֹאשׁ וְעַד רַגְלָיו “from his head to his feet;” Isaiah 1:6; 1 Ki. 6:24. This phrase is often used when all things are without distinction to be included, as if from beginning to end, from extremity to extremity. Jon. 3:5, מִגְּדֹלָם וְעַד קְטַנָּם “from the highest to the lowest,” i.e. all; hence it often is tam, quam, both … and, Ex. 22:3; Deu. 29:10; 1 Sa. 30:19; and with a particle of negation, neither, nor. Gen. 14:23, אִם מִחוּט וְעַד שְׁרוֹךְ־נַעַל “neither a thread nor a shoe latchet;” Gen. 31:24.—(γ) מִן … -ָ֫ה. Eze. 25:13, מִתֵּימָן … וּדְדָ֫נָה “from Teman … even to Dedan.”




The particle of negation in the clause in question is פֶּן (pen)2 which precedes the verb תְּדַבֵּר.



Hence, the phrase




וַיֹּאמֶר לוֹ הִשָּׁמֶר לְךָ פֶּן־תְּדַבֵּר עִם־יַעֲקֹב מִטּוֹב עַד־רָֽע




would be translated as,




And he said to him, “Be careful that you do not speak to Jacob either good or bad.




or




And he said to him, “Be careful that you speak to Jacob neither good nor bad.






Footnotes



1 Gesenius, p. 483, מִן and מִ·, number (3)
2id., p. 678, פֵּן:




II. פֵּן pr. subst. removing, taking away (from the root פָּנָה PI. No. 1), always in constr. פֶּן־ (followed by Makkeph) it becomes a conj. of removing, prohibiting, hindering, i.q. μή, ne, lest.




References



Gesenius, Heinrich Friedrich Wilhelm. Gesenius’s Hebrew and Chaldee Lexicon to the Old Testament Scriptures. Trans. Tregelles, Samuel Prideaux. London: Bagster, 1860.






share|improve this answer































    0














    Trying to perceive Hebrew with a western understanding can be tricky because not everything fits.



    Hebrew doesn’t really have the word evil, ra is really just bad and good is tob or tov but they are seen as balancing each other. One cannot exist without the other.



    Take light and dark. Westerners see light as good and dark as bad but an easterner sees them as functional and disfinctional (non functional)



    So when Laban is told say neither good nor bad



    It helps me to phrase it a little like this



    Don’t say anything functional or disfinctional
    Don’t say anything with intention to act or without intention to act
    Don’t threaten Jacob with intention or without intention



    I feel it means don’t threaten Jacob



    Same with Absalom he didn’t threaten his brother. He said neither good nor bad. He gave his brother no reason to feel threatened.





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      2 Answers
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      2 Answers
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      The Hebrew phrase in question is מִטּוֹב עַד־רָע (metov ad ra), literally “from good to bad.”



      According to Gesenius on מן...עד (min...ad),1




      There are used in opposition to each other—(α) מִן אֶל … from … unto (see אֶל let. a, 1); often for tam, quam, whether, or. Psa. 144:13, מִזַּן אֶל־וַן “from kind to kind,” i.e. things of every kind.—(β) מִן … עִד and מִן … וְעַד. Lev. 13:12, מֵרֹאשׁ וְעַד רַגְלָיו “from his head to his feet;” Isaiah 1:6; 1 Ki. 6:24. This phrase is often used when all things are without distinction to be included, as if from beginning to end, from extremity to extremity. Jon. 3:5, מִגְּדֹלָם וְעַד קְטַנָּם “from the highest to the lowest,” i.e. all; hence it often is tam, quam, both … and, Ex. 22:3; Deu. 29:10; 1 Sa. 30:19; and with a particle of negation, neither, nor. Gen. 14:23, אִם מִחוּט וְעַד שְׁרוֹךְ־נַעַל “neither a thread nor a shoe latchet;” Gen. 31:24.—(γ) מִן … -ָ֫ה. Eze. 25:13, מִתֵּימָן … וּדְדָ֫נָה “from Teman … even to Dedan.”




      The particle of negation in the clause in question is פֶּן (pen)2 which precedes the verb תְּדַבֵּר.



      Hence, the phrase




      וַיֹּאמֶר לוֹ הִשָּׁמֶר לְךָ פֶּן־תְּדַבֵּר עִם־יַעֲקֹב מִטּוֹב עַד־רָֽע




      would be translated as,




      And he said to him, “Be careful that you do not speak to Jacob either good or bad.




      or




      And he said to him, “Be careful that you speak to Jacob neither good nor bad.






      Footnotes



      1 Gesenius, p. 483, מִן and מִ·, number (3)
      2id., p. 678, פֵּן:




      II. פֵּן pr. subst. removing, taking away (from the root פָּנָה PI. No. 1), always in constr. פֶּן־ (followed by Makkeph) it becomes a conj. of removing, prohibiting, hindering, i.q. μή, ne, lest.




      References



      Gesenius, Heinrich Friedrich Wilhelm. Gesenius’s Hebrew and Chaldee Lexicon to the Old Testament Scriptures. Trans. Tregelles, Samuel Prideaux. London: Bagster, 1860.






      share|improve this answer




























        2














        The Hebrew phrase in question is מִטּוֹב עַד־רָע (metov ad ra), literally “from good to bad.”



        According to Gesenius on מן...עד (min...ad),1




        There are used in opposition to each other—(α) מִן אֶל … from … unto (see אֶל let. a, 1); often for tam, quam, whether, or. Psa. 144:13, מִזַּן אֶל־וַן “from kind to kind,” i.e. things of every kind.—(β) מִן … עִד and מִן … וְעַד. Lev. 13:12, מֵרֹאשׁ וְעַד רַגְלָיו “from his head to his feet;” Isaiah 1:6; 1 Ki. 6:24. This phrase is often used when all things are without distinction to be included, as if from beginning to end, from extremity to extremity. Jon. 3:5, מִגְּדֹלָם וְעַד קְטַנָּם “from the highest to the lowest,” i.e. all; hence it often is tam, quam, both … and, Ex. 22:3; Deu. 29:10; 1 Sa. 30:19; and with a particle of negation, neither, nor. Gen. 14:23, אִם מִחוּט וְעַד שְׁרוֹךְ־נַעַל “neither a thread nor a shoe latchet;” Gen. 31:24.—(γ) מִן … -ָ֫ה. Eze. 25:13, מִתֵּימָן … וּדְדָ֫נָה “from Teman … even to Dedan.”




        The particle of negation in the clause in question is פֶּן (pen)2 which precedes the verb תְּדַבֵּר.



        Hence, the phrase




        וַיֹּאמֶר לוֹ הִשָּׁמֶר לְךָ פֶּן־תְּדַבֵּר עִם־יַעֲקֹב מִטּוֹב עַד־רָֽע




        would be translated as,




        And he said to him, “Be careful that you do not speak to Jacob either good or bad.




        or




        And he said to him, “Be careful that you speak to Jacob neither good nor bad.






        Footnotes



        1 Gesenius, p. 483, מִן and מִ·, number (3)
        2id., p. 678, פֵּן:




        II. פֵּן pr. subst. removing, taking away (from the root פָּנָה PI. No. 1), always in constr. פֶּן־ (followed by Makkeph) it becomes a conj. of removing, prohibiting, hindering, i.q. μή, ne, lest.




        References



        Gesenius, Heinrich Friedrich Wilhelm. Gesenius’s Hebrew and Chaldee Lexicon to the Old Testament Scriptures. Trans. Tregelles, Samuel Prideaux. London: Bagster, 1860.






        share|improve this answer


























          2












          2








          2







          The Hebrew phrase in question is מִטּוֹב עַד־רָע (metov ad ra), literally “from good to bad.”



          According to Gesenius on מן...עד (min...ad),1




          There are used in opposition to each other—(α) מִן אֶל … from … unto (see אֶל let. a, 1); often for tam, quam, whether, or. Psa. 144:13, מִזַּן אֶל־וַן “from kind to kind,” i.e. things of every kind.—(β) מִן … עִד and מִן … וְעַד. Lev. 13:12, מֵרֹאשׁ וְעַד רַגְלָיו “from his head to his feet;” Isaiah 1:6; 1 Ki. 6:24. This phrase is often used when all things are without distinction to be included, as if from beginning to end, from extremity to extremity. Jon. 3:5, מִגְּדֹלָם וְעַד קְטַנָּם “from the highest to the lowest,” i.e. all; hence it often is tam, quam, both … and, Ex. 22:3; Deu. 29:10; 1 Sa. 30:19; and with a particle of negation, neither, nor. Gen. 14:23, אִם מִחוּט וְעַד שְׁרוֹךְ־נַעַל “neither a thread nor a shoe latchet;” Gen. 31:24.—(γ) מִן … -ָ֫ה. Eze. 25:13, מִתֵּימָן … וּדְדָ֫נָה “from Teman … even to Dedan.”




          The particle of negation in the clause in question is פֶּן (pen)2 which precedes the verb תְּדַבֵּר.



          Hence, the phrase




          וַיֹּאמֶר לוֹ הִשָּׁמֶר לְךָ פֶּן־תְּדַבֵּר עִם־יַעֲקֹב מִטּוֹב עַד־רָֽע




          would be translated as,




          And he said to him, “Be careful that you do not speak to Jacob either good or bad.




          or




          And he said to him, “Be careful that you speak to Jacob neither good nor bad.






          Footnotes



          1 Gesenius, p. 483, מִן and מִ·, number (3)
          2id., p. 678, פֵּן:




          II. פֵּן pr. subst. removing, taking away (from the root פָּנָה PI. No. 1), always in constr. פֶּן־ (followed by Makkeph) it becomes a conj. of removing, prohibiting, hindering, i.q. μή, ne, lest.




          References



          Gesenius, Heinrich Friedrich Wilhelm. Gesenius’s Hebrew and Chaldee Lexicon to the Old Testament Scriptures. Trans. Tregelles, Samuel Prideaux. London: Bagster, 1860.






          share|improve this answer













          The Hebrew phrase in question is מִטּוֹב עַד־רָע (metov ad ra), literally “from good to bad.”



          According to Gesenius on מן...עד (min...ad),1




          There are used in opposition to each other—(α) מִן אֶל … from … unto (see אֶל let. a, 1); often for tam, quam, whether, or. Psa. 144:13, מִזַּן אֶל־וַן “from kind to kind,” i.e. things of every kind.—(β) מִן … עִד and מִן … וְעַד. Lev. 13:12, מֵרֹאשׁ וְעַד רַגְלָיו “from his head to his feet;” Isaiah 1:6; 1 Ki. 6:24. This phrase is often used when all things are without distinction to be included, as if from beginning to end, from extremity to extremity. Jon. 3:5, מִגְּדֹלָם וְעַד קְטַנָּם “from the highest to the lowest,” i.e. all; hence it often is tam, quam, both … and, Ex. 22:3; Deu. 29:10; 1 Sa. 30:19; and with a particle of negation, neither, nor. Gen. 14:23, אִם מִחוּט וְעַד שְׁרוֹךְ־נַעַל “neither a thread nor a shoe latchet;” Gen. 31:24.—(γ) מִן … -ָ֫ה. Eze. 25:13, מִתֵּימָן … וּדְדָ֫נָה “from Teman … even to Dedan.”




          The particle of negation in the clause in question is פֶּן (pen)2 which precedes the verb תְּדַבֵּר.



          Hence, the phrase




          וַיֹּאמֶר לוֹ הִשָּׁמֶר לְךָ פֶּן־תְּדַבֵּר עִם־יַעֲקֹב מִטּוֹב עַד־רָֽע




          would be translated as,




          And he said to him, “Be careful that you do not speak to Jacob either good or bad.




          or




          And he said to him, “Be careful that you speak to Jacob neither good nor bad.






          Footnotes



          1 Gesenius, p. 483, מִן and מִ·, number (3)
          2id., p. 678, פֵּן:




          II. פֵּן pr. subst. removing, taking away (from the root פָּנָה PI. No. 1), always in constr. פֶּן־ (followed by Makkeph) it becomes a conj. of removing, prohibiting, hindering, i.q. μή, ne, lest.




          References



          Gesenius, Heinrich Friedrich Wilhelm. Gesenius’s Hebrew and Chaldee Lexicon to the Old Testament Scriptures. Trans. Tregelles, Samuel Prideaux. London: Bagster, 1860.







          share|improve this answer












          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer










          answered 58 mins ago









          Der ÜbermenschDer Übermensch

          2,982328




          2,982328























              0














              Trying to perceive Hebrew with a western understanding can be tricky because not everything fits.



              Hebrew doesn’t really have the word evil, ra is really just bad and good is tob or tov but they are seen as balancing each other. One cannot exist without the other.



              Take light and dark. Westerners see light as good and dark as bad but an easterner sees them as functional and disfinctional (non functional)



              So when Laban is told say neither good nor bad



              It helps me to phrase it a little like this



              Don’t say anything functional or disfinctional
              Don’t say anything with intention to act or without intention to act
              Don’t threaten Jacob with intention or without intention



              I feel it means don’t threaten Jacob



              Same with Absalom he didn’t threaten his brother. He said neither good nor bad. He gave his brother no reason to feel threatened.





              share




























                0














                Trying to perceive Hebrew with a western understanding can be tricky because not everything fits.



                Hebrew doesn’t really have the word evil, ra is really just bad and good is tob or tov but they are seen as balancing each other. One cannot exist without the other.



                Take light and dark. Westerners see light as good and dark as bad but an easterner sees them as functional and disfinctional (non functional)



                So when Laban is told say neither good nor bad



                It helps me to phrase it a little like this



                Don’t say anything functional or disfinctional
                Don’t say anything with intention to act or without intention to act
                Don’t threaten Jacob with intention or without intention



                I feel it means don’t threaten Jacob



                Same with Absalom he didn’t threaten his brother. He said neither good nor bad. He gave his brother no reason to feel threatened.





                share


























                  0












                  0








                  0







                  Trying to perceive Hebrew with a western understanding can be tricky because not everything fits.



                  Hebrew doesn’t really have the word evil, ra is really just bad and good is tob or tov but they are seen as balancing each other. One cannot exist without the other.



                  Take light and dark. Westerners see light as good and dark as bad but an easterner sees them as functional and disfinctional (non functional)



                  So when Laban is told say neither good nor bad



                  It helps me to phrase it a little like this



                  Don’t say anything functional or disfinctional
                  Don’t say anything with intention to act or without intention to act
                  Don’t threaten Jacob with intention or without intention



                  I feel it means don’t threaten Jacob



                  Same with Absalom he didn’t threaten his brother. He said neither good nor bad. He gave his brother no reason to feel threatened.





                  share













                  Trying to perceive Hebrew with a western understanding can be tricky because not everything fits.



                  Hebrew doesn’t really have the word evil, ra is really just bad and good is tob or tov but they are seen as balancing each other. One cannot exist without the other.



                  Take light and dark. Westerners see light as good and dark as bad but an easterner sees them as functional and disfinctional (non functional)



                  So when Laban is told say neither good nor bad



                  It helps me to phrase it a little like this



                  Don’t say anything functional or disfinctional
                  Don’t say anything with intention to act or without intention to act
                  Don’t threaten Jacob with intention or without intention



                  I feel it means don’t threaten Jacob



                  Same with Absalom he didn’t threaten his brother. He said neither good nor bad. He gave his brother no reason to feel threatened.






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                  answered 2 mins ago









                  Mr ConstantinMr Constantin

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