What determines the amount of lag you receive after air dodging?












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After directional air dodging in Smash Ultimate, it seems like I'm sometimes able to act almost immediately afterwards while other times I can fall all the way to the blast zone without being able to jump afterwards. Is the lag always constant after air dodging and I'm just crazy, or is the lag determined by something (percent, or maybe it stales the same way rolling on stage does?)?










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    9














    After directional air dodging in Smash Ultimate, it seems like I'm sometimes able to act almost immediately afterwards while other times I can fall all the way to the blast zone without being able to jump afterwards. Is the lag always constant after air dodging and I'm just crazy, or is the lag determined by something (percent, or maybe it stales the same way rolling on stage does?)?










    share|improve this question

























      9












      9








      9







      After directional air dodging in Smash Ultimate, it seems like I'm sometimes able to act almost immediately afterwards while other times I can fall all the way to the blast zone without being able to jump afterwards. Is the lag always constant after air dodging and I'm just crazy, or is the lag determined by something (percent, or maybe it stales the same way rolling on stage does?)?










      share|improve this question













      After directional air dodging in Smash Ultimate, it seems like I'm sometimes able to act almost immediately afterwards while other times I can fall all the way to the blast zone without being able to jump afterwards. Is the lag always constant after air dodging and I'm just crazy, or is the lag determined by something (percent, or maybe it stales the same way rolling on stage does?)?







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      Allball103

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          Smash Ultimate is different from all other titles in the series in that dodges now stale like other moves (I've heard this called both "dodge staling" and "dodge decay").



          This means that the more you dodge, the slower the dodge will come out, and the more lag you'll have after dodging. This staling mechanic encompasses every dodge. This means that more rolls and spot dodges on stage will stale your air dodges off-stage.



          For example, here's Wolf's back roll frame data (taken from here):




          Fresh: Int: 5-16 FAF: 34

          1 Stale: Int: 5-14 FAF: 38

          2 Stale: Int: 6-14 FAF: 41

          3 Stale: Int: 7-14 FAF: 45

          4 Stale: Int: 8-14 FAF: 48

          5 Stale: Int: 9-14 FAF: 51




          As you can see, the intangibility of the back roll starts later, ends earlier and the FAF--or "First Actionable Frame" (first frame you can act)--gets waaaaay later.



          The same is true for air dodges. The more you've been dodging (whether in the air or on the ground), the longer it'll take for you to be able to act out of an air dodge. Directional air dodges specifically can be brutally punishing if they're exceedingly stale.



          But here's where things get interesting. The FAF on air dodges actually depends on the direction you air dodge in!



          Using Fox as an example, his un-stale FAF values look like:




          Fox Up: 76

          Fox Diagonal Up: 70ish

          Fox Side: 65

          Fox Diagonal Down: 60ish

          Fox Down: 54




          If you're thinking to yourself that these numbers look pretty rough, you're right on the money. 60 frames is one full second! And if the rolls are anything to go by, these FAF values can be up to 20 frames greater at max stale. So a max staled upwards air dodge might leave you in free fall for more than 1.5 seconds!!



          That being said, the air dodge with the best FAF of them all is neutral air dodge. Fox's FAF for neutral air dodge is only 38! That's a whopping half of an upwards air dodge!!



          So if you find yourself dying to off-stage air dodges often, I'd strongly suggest working on doing neutral air dodges instead of trying for a directional air dodge as you'll be far less likely to fall too low and kill yourself before you can act.






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            12














            Smash Ultimate is different from all other titles in the series in that dodges now stale like other moves (I've heard this called both "dodge staling" and "dodge decay").



            This means that the more you dodge, the slower the dodge will come out, and the more lag you'll have after dodging. This staling mechanic encompasses every dodge. This means that more rolls and spot dodges on stage will stale your air dodges off-stage.



            For example, here's Wolf's back roll frame data (taken from here):




            Fresh: Int: 5-16 FAF: 34

            1 Stale: Int: 5-14 FAF: 38

            2 Stale: Int: 6-14 FAF: 41

            3 Stale: Int: 7-14 FAF: 45

            4 Stale: Int: 8-14 FAF: 48

            5 Stale: Int: 9-14 FAF: 51




            As you can see, the intangibility of the back roll starts later, ends earlier and the FAF--or "First Actionable Frame" (first frame you can act)--gets waaaaay later.



            The same is true for air dodges. The more you've been dodging (whether in the air or on the ground), the longer it'll take for you to be able to act out of an air dodge. Directional air dodges specifically can be brutally punishing if they're exceedingly stale.



            But here's where things get interesting. The FAF on air dodges actually depends on the direction you air dodge in!



            Using Fox as an example, his un-stale FAF values look like:




            Fox Up: 76

            Fox Diagonal Up: 70ish

            Fox Side: 65

            Fox Diagonal Down: 60ish

            Fox Down: 54




            If you're thinking to yourself that these numbers look pretty rough, you're right on the money. 60 frames is one full second! And if the rolls are anything to go by, these FAF values can be up to 20 frames greater at max stale. So a max staled upwards air dodge might leave you in free fall for more than 1.5 seconds!!



            That being said, the air dodge with the best FAF of them all is neutral air dodge. Fox's FAF for neutral air dodge is only 38! That's a whopping half of an upwards air dodge!!



            So if you find yourself dying to off-stage air dodges often, I'd strongly suggest working on doing neutral air dodges instead of trying for a directional air dodge as you'll be far less likely to fall too low and kill yourself before you can act.






            share|improve this answer




























              12














              Smash Ultimate is different from all other titles in the series in that dodges now stale like other moves (I've heard this called both "dodge staling" and "dodge decay").



              This means that the more you dodge, the slower the dodge will come out, and the more lag you'll have after dodging. This staling mechanic encompasses every dodge. This means that more rolls and spot dodges on stage will stale your air dodges off-stage.



              For example, here's Wolf's back roll frame data (taken from here):




              Fresh: Int: 5-16 FAF: 34

              1 Stale: Int: 5-14 FAF: 38

              2 Stale: Int: 6-14 FAF: 41

              3 Stale: Int: 7-14 FAF: 45

              4 Stale: Int: 8-14 FAF: 48

              5 Stale: Int: 9-14 FAF: 51




              As you can see, the intangibility of the back roll starts later, ends earlier and the FAF--or "First Actionable Frame" (first frame you can act)--gets waaaaay later.



              The same is true for air dodges. The more you've been dodging (whether in the air or on the ground), the longer it'll take for you to be able to act out of an air dodge. Directional air dodges specifically can be brutally punishing if they're exceedingly stale.



              But here's where things get interesting. The FAF on air dodges actually depends on the direction you air dodge in!



              Using Fox as an example, his un-stale FAF values look like:




              Fox Up: 76

              Fox Diagonal Up: 70ish

              Fox Side: 65

              Fox Diagonal Down: 60ish

              Fox Down: 54




              If you're thinking to yourself that these numbers look pretty rough, you're right on the money. 60 frames is one full second! And if the rolls are anything to go by, these FAF values can be up to 20 frames greater at max stale. So a max staled upwards air dodge might leave you in free fall for more than 1.5 seconds!!



              That being said, the air dodge with the best FAF of them all is neutral air dodge. Fox's FAF for neutral air dodge is only 38! That's a whopping half of an upwards air dodge!!



              So if you find yourself dying to off-stage air dodges often, I'd strongly suggest working on doing neutral air dodges instead of trying for a directional air dodge as you'll be far less likely to fall too low and kill yourself before you can act.






              share|improve this answer


























                12












                12








                12






                Smash Ultimate is different from all other titles in the series in that dodges now stale like other moves (I've heard this called both "dodge staling" and "dodge decay").



                This means that the more you dodge, the slower the dodge will come out, and the more lag you'll have after dodging. This staling mechanic encompasses every dodge. This means that more rolls and spot dodges on stage will stale your air dodges off-stage.



                For example, here's Wolf's back roll frame data (taken from here):




                Fresh: Int: 5-16 FAF: 34

                1 Stale: Int: 5-14 FAF: 38

                2 Stale: Int: 6-14 FAF: 41

                3 Stale: Int: 7-14 FAF: 45

                4 Stale: Int: 8-14 FAF: 48

                5 Stale: Int: 9-14 FAF: 51




                As you can see, the intangibility of the back roll starts later, ends earlier and the FAF--or "First Actionable Frame" (first frame you can act)--gets waaaaay later.



                The same is true for air dodges. The more you've been dodging (whether in the air or on the ground), the longer it'll take for you to be able to act out of an air dodge. Directional air dodges specifically can be brutally punishing if they're exceedingly stale.



                But here's where things get interesting. The FAF on air dodges actually depends on the direction you air dodge in!



                Using Fox as an example, his un-stale FAF values look like:




                Fox Up: 76

                Fox Diagonal Up: 70ish

                Fox Side: 65

                Fox Diagonal Down: 60ish

                Fox Down: 54




                If you're thinking to yourself that these numbers look pretty rough, you're right on the money. 60 frames is one full second! And if the rolls are anything to go by, these FAF values can be up to 20 frames greater at max stale. So a max staled upwards air dodge might leave you in free fall for more than 1.5 seconds!!



                That being said, the air dodge with the best FAF of them all is neutral air dodge. Fox's FAF for neutral air dodge is only 38! That's a whopping half of an upwards air dodge!!



                So if you find yourself dying to off-stage air dodges often, I'd strongly suggest working on doing neutral air dodges instead of trying for a directional air dodge as you'll be far less likely to fall too low and kill yourself before you can act.






                share|improve this answer














                Smash Ultimate is different from all other titles in the series in that dodges now stale like other moves (I've heard this called both "dodge staling" and "dodge decay").



                This means that the more you dodge, the slower the dodge will come out, and the more lag you'll have after dodging. This staling mechanic encompasses every dodge. This means that more rolls and spot dodges on stage will stale your air dodges off-stage.



                For example, here's Wolf's back roll frame data (taken from here):




                Fresh: Int: 5-16 FAF: 34

                1 Stale: Int: 5-14 FAF: 38

                2 Stale: Int: 6-14 FAF: 41

                3 Stale: Int: 7-14 FAF: 45

                4 Stale: Int: 8-14 FAF: 48

                5 Stale: Int: 9-14 FAF: 51




                As you can see, the intangibility of the back roll starts later, ends earlier and the FAF--or "First Actionable Frame" (first frame you can act)--gets waaaaay later.



                The same is true for air dodges. The more you've been dodging (whether in the air or on the ground), the longer it'll take for you to be able to act out of an air dodge. Directional air dodges specifically can be brutally punishing if they're exceedingly stale.



                But here's where things get interesting. The FAF on air dodges actually depends on the direction you air dodge in!



                Using Fox as an example, his un-stale FAF values look like:




                Fox Up: 76

                Fox Diagonal Up: 70ish

                Fox Side: 65

                Fox Diagonal Down: 60ish

                Fox Down: 54




                If you're thinking to yourself that these numbers look pretty rough, you're right on the money. 60 frames is one full second! And if the rolls are anything to go by, these FAF values can be up to 20 frames greater at max stale. So a max staled upwards air dodge might leave you in free fall for more than 1.5 seconds!!



                That being said, the air dodge with the best FAF of them all is neutral air dodge. Fox's FAF for neutral air dodge is only 38! That's a whopping half of an upwards air dodge!!



                So if you find yourself dying to off-stage air dodges often, I'd strongly suggest working on doing neutral air dodges instead of trying for a directional air dodge as you'll be far less likely to fall too low and kill yourself before you can act.







                share|improve this answer














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                edited 2 hours ago

























                answered 7 hours ago









                scohe001

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