Where did the concept of Passive Insight come from?












2














Recently-ish, Critical Role has introduced a concept that I had never heard of before: passive Insight. Now, it makes sense to me conceptually, as well as being useful for that table and their trigger-happy Insight checks, but I had never heard of it.



Where did this concept originate? Is it from a previous edition, or is it one of Matthew Mercer's homebrew rules?










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  • We've even got a question on this from the 4E days: rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/57628/…
    – Jadasc
    41 mins ago
















2














Recently-ish, Critical Role has introduced a concept that I had never heard of before: passive Insight. Now, it makes sense to me conceptually, as well as being useful for that table and their trigger-happy Insight checks, but I had never heard of it.



Where did this concept originate? Is it from a previous edition, or is it one of Matthew Mercer's homebrew rules?










share|improve this question
























  • We've even got a question on this from the 4E days: rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/57628/…
    – Jadasc
    41 mins ago














2












2








2







Recently-ish, Critical Role has introduced a concept that I had never heard of before: passive Insight. Now, it makes sense to me conceptually, as well as being useful for that table and their trigger-happy Insight checks, but I had never heard of it.



Where did this concept originate? Is it from a previous edition, or is it one of Matthew Mercer's homebrew rules?










share|improve this question















Recently-ish, Critical Role has introduced a concept that I had never heard of before: passive Insight. Now, it makes sense to me conceptually, as well as being useful for that table and their trigger-happy Insight checks, but I had never heard of it.



Where did this concept originate? Is it from a previous edition, or is it one of Matthew Mercer's homebrew rules?







dnd-5e skills podcast






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edited 19 mins ago









V2Blast

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19.7k356121










asked 1 hour ago









L.S. Cooper

2,330718




2,330718












  • We've even got a question on this from the 4E days: rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/57628/…
    – Jadasc
    41 mins ago


















  • We've even got a question on this from the 4E days: rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/57628/…
    – Jadasc
    41 mins ago
















We've even got a question on this from the 4E days: rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/57628/…
– Jadasc
41 mins ago




We've even got a question on this from the 4E days: rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/57628/…
– Jadasc
41 mins ago










3 Answers
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oldest

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6














The Player's Handbook has a section for "Passive Checks" for all ability scores



These rules are found on page 175, entitled "Passive Checks":




Passive Checks



A passive check is a special kind of ability check that doesn't involve any die rolls. Such a check can represent the average result for a task done repeatedly, such as searching for secret doors over and over again, or can be used when the DM wants to secretly determine whether the characters succeed at something without rolling dice, such as noticing a hidden monster.



Here's how to determine a character's total for a passive check:



10 + all modifiers that normally apply to the check



If the character has advantage on the check, add 5. For disadvantage, subtract 5. The game refers to a passive check total as a score.



For example, if a 1st-level character has a Wisdom of 15 and proficiency in Perception, he or she has a passive Wisdom (Perception) score of 14.



The rules on hiding in the "Dexterity" section below rely on passive checks, as do the exploration rules in chapter 8.




In the player's handbook itself, the only explicit use of passive checks is on Perception checks, to handle whether characters who are not actively searching for something will notice a hidden object or creature. But in theory, this can be applied to any check.



So in this context, a passive Insight check allows a creature who is very bad at being deceptive (in general or in this specific circumstance) to immediately be called out by the DM. This can simplify play in more mundane settings, and while still allowing players to take actions if they have prior reasons to suspect the behavior of the character they are interacting with.






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    5














    There are general rules for "passive checks" in 5e's skills chapter (Player's Handbook p.175), which "passive insight" is really just a specific implementation of. That didn't start with 5e, though. In 4th Edition, they had a general 'passive skills' concept ("Checks without rolls") that was along the lines of "you're always taking 10 with some skills". Insight was one of those. But the idea may predate even that, since there's long been an issue of knowing that you rolled a 2 on your perception or insight (or equivalent skills by other names) rolls and being aware that the information you got isn't trustworthy.



    I wouldn't really call this Mercer's homebrew, both because it's kind of in the book, and because it's hardly Mercer's in specific, as (based on googling) there were discussions of Passive Insight in 5e going back as far as when the game was still being called "DnD NEXT".






    share|improve this answer























    • Interesting, thanks! I figured it had to be from somewhere, but I wanted to get to the root of it before trying to adapt it for my party.
      – L.S. Cooper
      1 hour ago










    • I used passive take-10 approach on passive perception skills back in 3.5 (spot/listen, etc) and i found it was a good way for characters that weren't actively looking or listening for something. Would they hear it anyways? it's a great mechanic and I'm glad it's gotten more visibility now ^_^
      – Thomas Mundane
      59 mins ago





















    0














    Passive ability checks are explained in chapter 7 of the 5e Player's Handbook. While passive perception is the most commonly used passive check, any ability check can be made passive that the DM desires.






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      3 Answers
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      3 Answers
      3






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      active

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      6














      The Player's Handbook has a section for "Passive Checks" for all ability scores



      These rules are found on page 175, entitled "Passive Checks":




      Passive Checks



      A passive check is a special kind of ability check that doesn't involve any die rolls. Such a check can represent the average result for a task done repeatedly, such as searching for secret doors over and over again, or can be used when the DM wants to secretly determine whether the characters succeed at something without rolling dice, such as noticing a hidden monster.



      Here's how to determine a character's total for a passive check:



      10 + all modifiers that normally apply to the check



      If the character has advantage on the check, add 5. For disadvantage, subtract 5. The game refers to a passive check total as a score.



      For example, if a 1st-level character has a Wisdom of 15 and proficiency in Perception, he or she has a passive Wisdom (Perception) score of 14.



      The rules on hiding in the "Dexterity" section below rely on passive checks, as do the exploration rules in chapter 8.




      In the player's handbook itself, the only explicit use of passive checks is on Perception checks, to handle whether characters who are not actively searching for something will notice a hidden object or creature. But in theory, this can be applied to any check.



      So in this context, a passive Insight check allows a creature who is very bad at being deceptive (in general or in this specific circumstance) to immediately be called out by the DM. This can simplify play in more mundane settings, and while still allowing players to take actions if they have prior reasons to suspect the behavior of the character they are interacting with.






      share|improve this answer


























        6














        The Player's Handbook has a section for "Passive Checks" for all ability scores



        These rules are found on page 175, entitled "Passive Checks":




        Passive Checks



        A passive check is a special kind of ability check that doesn't involve any die rolls. Such a check can represent the average result for a task done repeatedly, such as searching for secret doors over and over again, or can be used when the DM wants to secretly determine whether the characters succeed at something without rolling dice, such as noticing a hidden monster.



        Here's how to determine a character's total for a passive check:



        10 + all modifiers that normally apply to the check



        If the character has advantage on the check, add 5. For disadvantage, subtract 5. The game refers to a passive check total as a score.



        For example, if a 1st-level character has a Wisdom of 15 and proficiency in Perception, he or she has a passive Wisdom (Perception) score of 14.



        The rules on hiding in the "Dexterity" section below rely on passive checks, as do the exploration rules in chapter 8.




        In the player's handbook itself, the only explicit use of passive checks is on Perception checks, to handle whether characters who are not actively searching for something will notice a hidden object or creature. But in theory, this can be applied to any check.



        So in this context, a passive Insight check allows a creature who is very bad at being deceptive (in general or in this specific circumstance) to immediately be called out by the DM. This can simplify play in more mundane settings, and while still allowing players to take actions if they have prior reasons to suspect the behavior of the character they are interacting with.






        share|improve this answer
























          6












          6








          6






          The Player's Handbook has a section for "Passive Checks" for all ability scores



          These rules are found on page 175, entitled "Passive Checks":




          Passive Checks



          A passive check is a special kind of ability check that doesn't involve any die rolls. Such a check can represent the average result for a task done repeatedly, such as searching for secret doors over and over again, or can be used when the DM wants to secretly determine whether the characters succeed at something without rolling dice, such as noticing a hidden monster.



          Here's how to determine a character's total for a passive check:



          10 + all modifiers that normally apply to the check



          If the character has advantage on the check, add 5. For disadvantage, subtract 5. The game refers to a passive check total as a score.



          For example, if a 1st-level character has a Wisdom of 15 and proficiency in Perception, he or she has a passive Wisdom (Perception) score of 14.



          The rules on hiding in the "Dexterity" section below rely on passive checks, as do the exploration rules in chapter 8.




          In the player's handbook itself, the only explicit use of passive checks is on Perception checks, to handle whether characters who are not actively searching for something will notice a hidden object or creature. But in theory, this can be applied to any check.



          So in this context, a passive Insight check allows a creature who is very bad at being deceptive (in general or in this specific circumstance) to immediately be called out by the DM. This can simplify play in more mundane settings, and while still allowing players to take actions if they have prior reasons to suspect the behavior of the character they are interacting with.






          share|improve this answer












          The Player's Handbook has a section for "Passive Checks" for all ability scores



          These rules are found on page 175, entitled "Passive Checks":




          Passive Checks



          A passive check is a special kind of ability check that doesn't involve any die rolls. Such a check can represent the average result for a task done repeatedly, such as searching for secret doors over and over again, or can be used when the DM wants to secretly determine whether the characters succeed at something without rolling dice, such as noticing a hidden monster.



          Here's how to determine a character's total for a passive check:



          10 + all modifiers that normally apply to the check



          If the character has advantage on the check, add 5. For disadvantage, subtract 5. The game refers to a passive check total as a score.



          For example, if a 1st-level character has a Wisdom of 15 and proficiency in Perception, he or she has a passive Wisdom (Perception) score of 14.



          The rules on hiding in the "Dexterity" section below rely on passive checks, as do the exploration rules in chapter 8.




          In the player's handbook itself, the only explicit use of passive checks is on Perception checks, to handle whether characters who are not actively searching for something will notice a hidden object or creature. But in theory, this can be applied to any check.



          So in this context, a passive Insight check allows a creature who is very bad at being deceptive (in general or in this specific circumstance) to immediately be called out by the DM. This can simplify play in more mundane settings, and while still allowing players to take actions if they have prior reasons to suspect the behavior of the character they are interacting with.







          share|improve this answer












          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer










          answered 1 hour ago









          Xirema

          16k24696




          16k24696

























              5














              There are general rules for "passive checks" in 5e's skills chapter (Player's Handbook p.175), which "passive insight" is really just a specific implementation of. That didn't start with 5e, though. In 4th Edition, they had a general 'passive skills' concept ("Checks without rolls") that was along the lines of "you're always taking 10 with some skills". Insight was one of those. But the idea may predate even that, since there's long been an issue of knowing that you rolled a 2 on your perception or insight (or equivalent skills by other names) rolls and being aware that the information you got isn't trustworthy.



              I wouldn't really call this Mercer's homebrew, both because it's kind of in the book, and because it's hardly Mercer's in specific, as (based on googling) there were discussions of Passive Insight in 5e going back as far as when the game was still being called "DnD NEXT".






              share|improve this answer























              • Interesting, thanks! I figured it had to be from somewhere, but I wanted to get to the root of it before trying to adapt it for my party.
                – L.S. Cooper
                1 hour ago










              • I used passive take-10 approach on passive perception skills back in 3.5 (spot/listen, etc) and i found it was a good way for characters that weren't actively looking or listening for something. Would they hear it anyways? it's a great mechanic and I'm glad it's gotten more visibility now ^_^
                – Thomas Mundane
                59 mins ago


















              5














              There are general rules for "passive checks" in 5e's skills chapter (Player's Handbook p.175), which "passive insight" is really just a specific implementation of. That didn't start with 5e, though. In 4th Edition, they had a general 'passive skills' concept ("Checks without rolls") that was along the lines of "you're always taking 10 with some skills". Insight was one of those. But the idea may predate even that, since there's long been an issue of knowing that you rolled a 2 on your perception or insight (or equivalent skills by other names) rolls and being aware that the information you got isn't trustworthy.



              I wouldn't really call this Mercer's homebrew, both because it's kind of in the book, and because it's hardly Mercer's in specific, as (based on googling) there were discussions of Passive Insight in 5e going back as far as when the game was still being called "DnD NEXT".






              share|improve this answer























              • Interesting, thanks! I figured it had to be from somewhere, but I wanted to get to the root of it before trying to adapt it for my party.
                – L.S. Cooper
                1 hour ago










              • I used passive take-10 approach on passive perception skills back in 3.5 (spot/listen, etc) and i found it was a good way for characters that weren't actively looking or listening for something. Would they hear it anyways? it's a great mechanic and I'm glad it's gotten more visibility now ^_^
                – Thomas Mundane
                59 mins ago
















              5












              5








              5






              There are general rules for "passive checks" in 5e's skills chapter (Player's Handbook p.175), which "passive insight" is really just a specific implementation of. That didn't start with 5e, though. In 4th Edition, they had a general 'passive skills' concept ("Checks without rolls") that was along the lines of "you're always taking 10 with some skills". Insight was one of those. But the idea may predate even that, since there's long been an issue of knowing that you rolled a 2 on your perception or insight (or equivalent skills by other names) rolls and being aware that the information you got isn't trustworthy.



              I wouldn't really call this Mercer's homebrew, both because it's kind of in the book, and because it's hardly Mercer's in specific, as (based on googling) there were discussions of Passive Insight in 5e going back as far as when the game was still being called "DnD NEXT".






              share|improve this answer














              There are general rules for "passive checks" in 5e's skills chapter (Player's Handbook p.175), which "passive insight" is really just a specific implementation of. That didn't start with 5e, though. In 4th Edition, they had a general 'passive skills' concept ("Checks without rolls") that was along the lines of "you're always taking 10 with some skills". Insight was one of those. But the idea may predate even that, since there's long been an issue of knowing that you rolled a 2 on your perception or insight (or equivalent skills by other names) rolls and being aware that the information you got isn't trustworthy.



              I wouldn't really call this Mercer's homebrew, both because it's kind of in the book, and because it's hardly Mercer's in specific, as (based on googling) there were discussions of Passive Insight in 5e going back as far as when the game was still being called "DnD NEXT".







              share|improve this answer














              share|improve this answer



              share|improve this answer








              edited 1 hour ago

























              answered 1 hour ago









              Darth Pseudonym

              12.1k22966




              12.1k22966












              • Interesting, thanks! I figured it had to be from somewhere, but I wanted to get to the root of it before trying to adapt it for my party.
                – L.S. Cooper
                1 hour ago










              • I used passive take-10 approach on passive perception skills back in 3.5 (spot/listen, etc) and i found it was a good way for characters that weren't actively looking or listening for something. Would they hear it anyways? it's a great mechanic and I'm glad it's gotten more visibility now ^_^
                – Thomas Mundane
                59 mins ago




















              • Interesting, thanks! I figured it had to be from somewhere, but I wanted to get to the root of it before trying to adapt it for my party.
                – L.S. Cooper
                1 hour ago










              • I used passive take-10 approach on passive perception skills back in 3.5 (spot/listen, etc) and i found it was a good way for characters that weren't actively looking or listening for something. Would they hear it anyways? it's a great mechanic and I'm glad it's gotten more visibility now ^_^
                – Thomas Mundane
                59 mins ago


















              Interesting, thanks! I figured it had to be from somewhere, but I wanted to get to the root of it before trying to adapt it for my party.
              – L.S. Cooper
              1 hour ago




              Interesting, thanks! I figured it had to be from somewhere, but I wanted to get to the root of it before trying to adapt it for my party.
              – L.S. Cooper
              1 hour ago












              I used passive take-10 approach on passive perception skills back in 3.5 (spot/listen, etc) and i found it was a good way for characters that weren't actively looking or listening for something. Would they hear it anyways? it's a great mechanic and I'm glad it's gotten more visibility now ^_^
              – Thomas Mundane
              59 mins ago






              I used passive take-10 approach on passive perception skills back in 3.5 (spot/listen, etc) and i found it was a good way for characters that weren't actively looking or listening for something. Would they hear it anyways? it's a great mechanic and I'm glad it's gotten more visibility now ^_^
              – Thomas Mundane
              59 mins ago













              0














              Passive ability checks are explained in chapter 7 of the 5e Player's Handbook. While passive perception is the most commonly used passive check, any ability check can be made passive that the DM desires.






              share|improve this answer


























                0














                Passive ability checks are explained in chapter 7 of the 5e Player's Handbook. While passive perception is the most commonly used passive check, any ability check can be made passive that the DM desires.






                share|improve this answer
























                  0












                  0








                  0






                  Passive ability checks are explained in chapter 7 of the 5e Player's Handbook. While passive perception is the most commonly used passive check, any ability check can be made passive that the DM desires.






                  share|improve this answer












                  Passive ability checks are explained in chapter 7 of the 5e Player's Handbook. While passive perception is the most commonly used passive check, any ability check can be made passive that the DM desires.







                  share|improve this answer












                  share|improve this answer



                  share|improve this answer










                  answered 1 hour ago









                  Derek Stucki

                  20.8k767107




                  20.8k767107






























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