What criteria should be taken into account when selecting nodes to create new lightning channels with?












4














Alex Bosworth recently pointed out:




I see people connect to a "well connected" node on LN and by that they mean they connect to a node with lots of channels. The number of channels is actually a contra-indicator of a node's ability to route. Good routers curate and balance. Bad routers spam the open channel button. [Emphasis added]




What criteria should be kept in mind when evaluating nodes while opening new channels on the lightning network?










share|improve this question



























    4














    Alex Bosworth recently pointed out:




    I see people connect to a "well connected" node on LN and by that they mean they connect to a node with lots of channels. The number of channels is actually a contra-indicator of a node's ability to route. Good routers curate and balance. Bad routers spam the open channel button. [Emphasis added]




    What criteria should be kept in mind when evaluating nodes while opening new channels on the lightning network?










    share|improve this question

























      4












      4








      4







      Alex Bosworth recently pointed out:




      I see people connect to a "well connected" node on LN and by that they mean they connect to a node with lots of channels. The number of channels is actually a contra-indicator of a node's ability to route. Good routers curate and balance. Bad routers spam the open channel button. [Emphasis added]




      What criteria should be kept in mind when evaluating nodes while opening new channels on the lightning network?










      share|improve this question













      Alex Bosworth recently pointed out:




      I see people connect to a "well connected" node on LN and by that they mean they connect to a node with lots of channels. The number of channels is actually a contra-indicator of a node's ability to route. Good routers curate and balance. Bad routers spam the open channel button. [Emphasis added]




      What criteria should be kept in mind when evaluating nodes while opening new channels on the lightning network?







      lightning-network lightning-routing ln-opening-channels ln-topology






      share|improve this question













      share|improve this question











      share|improve this question




      share|improve this question










      asked 2 hours ago









      Murch

      34.6k27112324




      34.6k27112324






















          2 Answers
          2






          active

          oldest

          votes


















          2














          I agree with Alex Bosworth and I have pointed this out about one year ago when I have filed an issue about the strategy used by the LND autopilot which basically looks for nodes with a high channel count. This is one of the reasons why I have created a standalone autopilot and provided an integration for c-lightning.



          There are several kind of information we can look at (my autopilot currently only looks at the first ones):




          1. Network topology:


            • How can I increase my centrality (e.g. by connecting to central nodes)

            • How can I increase my probability to have well funded routes by connecting to points where a lot of liquidity is floating around

            • Improve the network topology by increasing the amount of triangles

            • Geography: It is likely that you pay to services where you live and therefor you might want to connect to nodes that have a similar geoip as yours.



          2. Node Provenance / properties:


            • age of Node (seen by oldest channels)

            • age of channels (seen by the blockheight of funding transactions)

            • uptime of the node (can be tracked via the gossip messages and the gossip store)

            • Routing fees of the node

            • Reliability of the node to forward payments (can be tracked by doing fake 1 satoshi payments to yourself over different routes)




          most of the stuff that I mentioned here has been taken from my blog article about autopilots. In general I hope that better autopilots will emerge because I think this problem will be hard to decide by humans without investing a lot of time.



          Finally another strategy could be to create routing tables in a similar way as the border gateway protocol does on top of IP. In that case nodes would share partial information about the channel balance so that we would have a better overview of where liquidity is missing.






          share|improve this answer





























            1














            Here there are some properties:



            Node reliability: On-line connected 24/7.
            History: when the node came online for first time.
            Routing: How many channels has the node.
            Capacity: How much capacity can the handle through channels






            share|improve this answer








            New contributor




            Carlos Roldan is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
            Check out our Code of Conduct.


















              Your Answer








              StackExchange.ready(function() {
              var channelOptions = {
              tags: "".split(" "),
              id: "308"
              };
              initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

              StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
              // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
              if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
              StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
              createEditor();
              });
              }
              else {
              createEditor();
              }
              });

              function createEditor() {
              StackExchange.prepareEditor({
              heartbeatType: 'answer',
              autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
              convertImagesToLinks: false,
              noModals: true,
              showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
              reputationToPostImages: null,
              bindNavPrevention: true,
              postfix: "",
              imageUploader: {
              brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
              contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
              allowUrls: true
              },
              noCode: true, onDemand: true,
              discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
              ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
              });


              }
              });














              draft saved

              draft discarded


















              StackExchange.ready(
              function () {
              StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fbitcoin.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f83362%2fwhat-criteria-should-be-taken-into-account-when-selecting-nodes-to-create-new-li%23new-answer', 'question_page');
              }
              );

              Post as a guest















              Required, but never shown

























              2 Answers
              2






              active

              oldest

              votes








              2 Answers
              2






              active

              oldest

              votes









              active

              oldest

              votes






              active

              oldest

              votes









              2














              I agree with Alex Bosworth and I have pointed this out about one year ago when I have filed an issue about the strategy used by the LND autopilot which basically looks for nodes with a high channel count. This is one of the reasons why I have created a standalone autopilot and provided an integration for c-lightning.



              There are several kind of information we can look at (my autopilot currently only looks at the first ones):




              1. Network topology:


                • How can I increase my centrality (e.g. by connecting to central nodes)

                • How can I increase my probability to have well funded routes by connecting to points where a lot of liquidity is floating around

                • Improve the network topology by increasing the amount of triangles

                • Geography: It is likely that you pay to services where you live and therefor you might want to connect to nodes that have a similar geoip as yours.



              2. Node Provenance / properties:


                • age of Node (seen by oldest channels)

                • age of channels (seen by the blockheight of funding transactions)

                • uptime of the node (can be tracked via the gossip messages and the gossip store)

                • Routing fees of the node

                • Reliability of the node to forward payments (can be tracked by doing fake 1 satoshi payments to yourself over different routes)




              most of the stuff that I mentioned here has been taken from my blog article about autopilots. In general I hope that better autopilots will emerge because I think this problem will be hard to decide by humans without investing a lot of time.



              Finally another strategy could be to create routing tables in a similar way as the border gateway protocol does on top of IP. In that case nodes would share partial information about the channel balance so that we would have a better overview of where liquidity is missing.






              share|improve this answer


























                2














                I agree with Alex Bosworth and I have pointed this out about one year ago when I have filed an issue about the strategy used by the LND autopilot which basically looks for nodes with a high channel count. This is one of the reasons why I have created a standalone autopilot and provided an integration for c-lightning.



                There are several kind of information we can look at (my autopilot currently only looks at the first ones):




                1. Network topology:


                  • How can I increase my centrality (e.g. by connecting to central nodes)

                  • How can I increase my probability to have well funded routes by connecting to points where a lot of liquidity is floating around

                  • Improve the network topology by increasing the amount of triangles

                  • Geography: It is likely that you pay to services where you live and therefor you might want to connect to nodes that have a similar geoip as yours.



                2. Node Provenance / properties:


                  • age of Node (seen by oldest channels)

                  • age of channels (seen by the blockheight of funding transactions)

                  • uptime of the node (can be tracked via the gossip messages and the gossip store)

                  • Routing fees of the node

                  • Reliability of the node to forward payments (can be tracked by doing fake 1 satoshi payments to yourself over different routes)




                most of the stuff that I mentioned here has been taken from my blog article about autopilots. In general I hope that better autopilots will emerge because I think this problem will be hard to decide by humans without investing a lot of time.



                Finally another strategy could be to create routing tables in a similar way as the border gateway protocol does on top of IP. In that case nodes would share partial information about the channel balance so that we would have a better overview of where liquidity is missing.






                share|improve this answer
























                  2












                  2








                  2






                  I agree with Alex Bosworth and I have pointed this out about one year ago when I have filed an issue about the strategy used by the LND autopilot which basically looks for nodes with a high channel count. This is one of the reasons why I have created a standalone autopilot and provided an integration for c-lightning.



                  There are several kind of information we can look at (my autopilot currently only looks at the first ones):




                  1. Network topology:


                    • How can I increase my centrality (e.g. by connecting to central nodes)

                    • How can I increase my probability to have well funded routes by connecting to points where a lot of liquidity is floating around

                    • Improve the network topology by increasing the amount of triangles

                    • Geography: It is likely that you pay to services where you live and therefor you might want to connect to nodes that have a similar geoip as yours.



                  2. Node Provenance / properties:


                    • age of Node (seen by oldest channels)

                    • age of channels (seen by the blockheight of funding transactions)

                    • uptime of the node (can be tracked via the gossip messages and the gossip store)

                    • Routing fees of the node

                    • Reliability of the node to forward payments (can be tracked by doing fake 1 satoshi payments to yourself over different routes)




                  most of the stuff that I mentioned here has been taken from my blog article about autopilots. In general I hope that better autopilots will emerge because I think this problem will be hard to decide by humans without investing a lot of time.



                  Finally another strategy could be to create routing tables in a similar way as the border gateway protocol does on top of IP. In that case nodes would share partial information about the channel balance so that we would have a better overview of where liquidity is missing.






                  share|improve this answer












                  I agree with Alex Bosworth and I have pointed this out about one year ago when I have filed an issue about the strategy used by the LND autopilot which basically looks for nodes with a high channel count. This is one of the reasons why I have created a standalone autopilot and provided an integration for c-lightning.



                  There are several kind of information we can look at (my autopilot currently only looks at the first ones):




                  1. Network topology:


                    • How can I increase my centrality (e.g. by connecting to central nodes)

                    • How can I increase my probability to have well funded routes by connecting to points where a lot of liquidity is floating around

                    • Improve the network topology by increasing the amount of triangles

                    • Geography: It is likely that you pay to services where you live and therefor you might want to connect to nodes that have a similar geoip as yours.



                  2. Node Provenance / properties:


                    • age of Node (seen by oldest channels)

                    • age of channels (seen by the blockheight of funding transactions)

                    • uptime of the node (can be tracked via the gossip messages and the gossip store)

                    • Routing fees of the node

                    • Reliability of the node to forward payments (can be tracked by doing fake 1 satoshi payments to yourself over different routes)




                  most of the stuff that I mentioned here has been taken from my blog article about autopilots. In general I hope that better autopilots will emerge because I think this problem will be hard to decide by humans without investing a lot of time.



                  Finally another strategy could be to create routing tables in a similar way as the border gateway protocol does on top of IP. In that case nodes would share partial information about the channel balance so that we would have a better overview of where liquidity is missing.







                  share|improve this answer












                  share|improve this answer



                  share|improve this answer










                  answered 1 hour ago









                  Rene Pickhardt

                  43211




                  43211























                      1














                      Here there are some properties:



                      Node reliability: On-line connected 24/7.
                      History: when the node came online for first time.
                      Routing: How many channels has the node.
                      Capacity: How much capacity can the handle through channels






                      share|improve this answer








                      New contributor




                      Carlos Roldan is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                      Check out our Code of Conduct.























                        1














                        Here there are some properties:



                        Node reliability: On-line connected 24/7.
                        History: when the node came online for first time.
                        Routing: How many channels has the node.
                        Capacity: How much capacity can the handle through channels






                        share|improve this answer








                        New contributor




                        Carlos Roldan is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                        Check out our Code of Conduct.





















                          1












                          1








                          1






                          Here there are some properties:



                          Node reliability: On-line connected 24/7.
                          History: when the node came online for first time.
                          Routing: How many channels has the node.
                          Capacity: How much capacity can the handle through channels






                          share|improve this answer








                          New contributor




                          Carlos Roldan is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                          Check out our Code of Conduct.









                          Here there are some properties:



                          Node reliability: On-line connected 24/7.
                          History: when the node came online for first time.
                          Routing: How many channels has the node.
                          Capacity: How much capacity can the handle through channels







                          share|improve this answer








                          New contributor




                          Carlos Roldan is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                          Check out our Code of Conduct.









                          share|improve this answer



                          share|improve this answer






                          New contributor




                          Carlos Roldan is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                          Check out our Code of Conduct.









                          answered 1 hour ago









                          Carlos Roldan

                          111




                          111




                          New contributor




                          Carlos Roldan is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                          Check out our Code of Conduct.





                          New contributor





                          Carlos Roldan is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                          Check out our Code of Conduct.






                          Carlos Roldan is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                          Check out our Code of Conduct.






























                              draft saved

                              draft discarded




















































                              Thanks for contributing an answer to Bitcoin Stack Exchange!


                              • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

                              But avoid



                              • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

                              • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.


                              To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.





                              Some of your past answers have not been well-received, and you're in danger of being blocked from answering.


                              Please pay close attention to the following guidance:


                              • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

                              But avoid



                              • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

                              • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.


                              To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




                              draft saved


                              draft discarded














                              StackExchange.ready(
                              function () {
                              StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fbitcoin.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f83362%2fwhat-criteria-should-be-taken-into-account-when-selecting-nodes-to-create-new-li%23new-answer', 'question_page');
                              }
                              );

                              Post as a guest















                              Required, but never shown





















































                              Required, but never shown














                              Required, but never shown












                              Required, but never shown







                              Required, but never shown

































                              Required, but never shown














                              Required, but never shown












                              Required, but never shown







                              Required, but never shown







                              Popular posts from this blog

                              Eastern Orthodox Church

                              Zagreb

                              Understanding the information contained in the Deep Space Network XML data?