A question on dominant morphism of affine schemes
Let $A subseteq B$ be a ring extension where $A,B$ are both finitely generated $mathbb C$-domain of the same Krull dimension. Also assume $A$ is regular (i.e. $A_{ mathfrak p}$ is regular local ring for every prime ideal $mathfrak p$ of $A$ ).
If $P$ is a prime ideal of $A$ with finitely many prime ideals of $B$ lying over it , then does there exist $f in A setminus P$ such that every prime ideal of $A_f$ has finitely many prime ideals of $B$ lying over it ?
ag.algebraic-geometry ac.commutative-algebra dimension-theory
|
show 1 more comment
Let $A subseteq B$ be a ring extension where $A,B$ are both finitely generated $mathbb C$-domain of the same Krull dimension. Also assume $A$ is regular (i.e. $A_{ mathfrak p}$ is regular local ring for every prime ideal $mathfrak p$ of $A$ ).
If $P$ is a prime ideal of $A$ with finitely many prime ideals of $B$ lying over it , then does there exist $f in A setminus P$ such that every prime ideal of $A_f$ has finitely many prime ideals of $B$ lying over it ?
ag.algebraic-geometry ac.commutative-algebra dimension-theory
I am not able to understand where is the dominant morphism of Affine schemes...
– Praphulla Koushik
4 hours ago
@PraphullaKoushik: just the inclusion $A to B$ ...
– user521337
4 hours ago
Do you think title can be edited to make it clearer or it is difficult to say this in one line.. I am not questioning anything I am simply asking.. Can you tell how does algebraic geometry tag is relevant here?
– Praphulla Koushik
4 hours ago
@PraphullaKoushik: In algebraic geometric terms ... let $X,Y$ be integral, finite type, affine $mathbb C$-schemes with $dim X=dim Y$ with $Y$ non-singular, normal. Let $f: X to Y$ be a dominant morphism. Let $U:={yin Y : f^{-1}({y}) $ is finite and non-empty $}$ . Question: Is $U$ open ?
– user521337
4 hours ago
2
This is a duplicate from [mathoverflow.net/questions/193/…
– Matthieu Romagny
1 hour ago
|
show 1 more comment
Let $A subseteq B$ be a ring extension where $A,B$ are both finitely generated $mathbb C$-domain of the same Krull dimension. Also assume $A$ is regular (i.e. $A_{ mathfrak p}$ is regular local ring for every prime ideal $mathfrak p$ of $A$ ).
If $P$ is a prime ideal of $A$ with finitely many prime ideals of $B$ lying over it , then does there exist $f in A setminus P$ such that every prime ideal of $A_f$ has finitely many prime ideals of $B$ lying over it ?
ag.algebraic-geometry ac.commutative-algebra dimension-theory
Let $A subseteq B$ be a ring extension where $A,B$ are both finitely generated $mathbb C$-domain of the same Krull dimension. Also assume $A$ is regular (i.e. $A_{ mathfrak p}$ is regular local ring for every prime ideal $mathfrak p$ of $A$ ).
If $P$ is a prime ideal of $A$ with finitely many prime ideals of $B$ lying over it , then does there exist $f in A setminus P$ such that every prime ideal of $A_f$ has finitely many prime ideals of $B$ lying over it ?
ag.algebraic-geometry ac.commutative-algebra dimension-theory
ag.algebraic-geometry ac.commutative-algebra dimension-theory
asked 5 hours ago
user521337
55115
55115
I am not able to understand where is the dominant morphism of Affine schemes...
– Praphulla Koushik
4 hours ago
@PraphullaKoushik: just the inclusion $A to B$ ...
– user521337
4 hours ago
Do you think title can be edited to make it clearer or it is difficult to say this in one line.. I am not questioning anything I am simply asking.. Can you tell how does algebraic geometry tag is relevant here?
– Praphulla Koushik
4 hours ago
@PraphullaKoushik: In algebraic geometric terms ... let $X,Y$ be integral, finite type, affine $mathbb C$-schemes with $dim X=dim Y$ with $Y$ non-singular, normal. Let $f: X to Y$ be a dominant morphism. Let $U:={yin Y : f^{-1}({y}) $ is finite and non-empty $}$ . Question: Is $U$ open ?
– user521337
4 hours ago
2
This is a duplicate from [mathoverflow.net/questions/193/…
– Matthieu Romagny
1 hour ago
|
show 1 more comment
I am not able to understand where is the dominant morphism of Affine schemes...
– Praphulla Koushik
4 hours ago
@PraphullaKoushik: just the inclusion $A to B$ ...
– user521337
4 hours ago
Do you think title can be edited to make it clearer or it is difficult to say this in one line.. I am not questioning anything I am simply asking.. Can you tell how does algebraic geometry tag is relevant here?
– Praphulla Koushik
4 hours ago
@PraphullaKoushik: In algebraic geometric terms ... let $X,Y$ be integral, finite type, affine $mathbb C$-schemes with $dim X=dim Y$ with $Y$ non-singular, normal. Let $f: X to Y$ be a dominant morphism. Let $U:={yin Y : f^{-1}({y}) $ is finite and non-empty $}$ . Question: Is $U$ open ?
– user521337
4 hours ago
2
This is a duplicate from [mathoverflow.net/questions/193/…
– Matthieu Romagny
1 hour ago
I am not able to understand where is the dominant morphism of Affine schemes...
– Praphulla Koushik
4 hours ago
I am not able to understand where is the dominant morphism of Affine schemes...
– Praphulla Koushik
4 hours ago
@PraphullaKoushik: just the inclusion $A to B$ ...
– user521337
4 hours ago
@PraphullaKoushik: just the inclusion $A to B$ ...
– user521337
4 hours ago
Do you think title can be edited to make it clearer or it is difficult to say this in one line.. I am not questioning anything I am simply asking.. Can you tell how does algebraic geometry tag is relevant here?
– Praphulla Koushik
4 hours ago
Do you think title can be edited to make it clearer or it is difficult to say this in one line.. I am not questioning anything I am simply asking.. Can you tell how does algebraic geometry tag is relevant here?
– Praphulla Koushik
4 hours ago
@PraphullaKoushik: In algebraic geometric terms ... let $X,Y$ be integral, finite type, affine $mathbb C$-schemes with $dim X=dim Y$ with $Y$ non-singular, normal. Let $f: X to Y$ be a dominant morphism. Let $U:={yin Y : f^{-1}({y}) $ is finite and non-empty $}$ . Question: Is $U$ open ?
– user521337
4 hours ago
@PraphullaKoushik: In algebraic geometric terms ... let $X,Y$ be integral, finite type, affine $mathbb C$-schemes with $dim X=dim Y$ with $Y$ non-singular, normal. Let $f: X to Y$ be a dominant morphism. Let $U:={yin Y : f^{-1}({y}) $ is finite and non-empty $}$ . Question: Is $U$ open ?
– user521337
4 hours ago
2
2
This is a duplicate from [mathoverflow.net/questions/193/…
– Matthieu Romagny
1 hour ago
This is a duplicate from [mathoverflow.net/questions/193/…
– Matthieu Romagny
1 hour ago
|
show 1 more comment
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
The comment of @MatthieuRomagny gives a link to some positive answers under additional hypotheses. Nonetheless, the answer is negative without further hypotheses. Here is one counterexample.
Let $k$ be a field, and let $A$ be the polynomial ring $k[s,t,u]$. Let $B$ be the ring $k[x,y,z,w]/langle zw-1 rangle$. Both of these are finitely generated $k$-algebras that are regular, in fact $k$-smooth. Now consider the $k$-algebra homomorphism, $$p:Ato B, p(s) = x(1-x), p(t) = xy, p(u) = z(1-xz).$$ If we invert the element $s$ in $A$ and the image element $x(1-x)$ in $B$, then the induced ring homomorphism is finite and flat of rank $4$. In particular, the localized ring homomorphism is injective. Since the natural map from $A$ to $A[1/s]$ is injective, also $p$ is injective.
Finally, consider the prime ideal $P=langle s,t,urangle$ in $A$. There is precisely one prime lying above this prime, namely $langle x-1,y,z-1,w-1rangle$. However, the prime ideal $Q=langle s,t rangle$ has infinitely many primes lying over it, e.g., $langle x,q(y) rangle$ where $q(y)in k[y]$ is an arbitrary nonzero, noninvertible element that is irreducible. Since $Q$ is contained in $P$, for every $fin Asetminus P$, also $f$ is in $Asetminus Q$. Thus, the ideal $QA_f$ is a prime ideal of $A_f$. So the induced ring homomorphism $A_f to B_{p(f)}$ still admits a prime ideal $QA_f$ that has infinitely many primes lying over it in $B_{p(f)}$.
There is an even easier counterexample if we allow that the set of primes lying over $P=langle s,t,u rangle$ is empty, namely the self-map, $$r:Ato A, r(s) = s, r(t) = st, r(u) = 1-su.$$ This ring homomorphism is even birational.
Please note, there is a partial positive answer in the birational case. Even assuming that $A$ is only normal, the connectedness part of Zariki's Main Theorem implies that if the fiber over $P$ intersects the quasi-finite locus of the morphism inside $text{Spec} B$, then the morphism becomes an isomorphism after inverting some $fin Asetminus P$. Perhaps this is the result that motivated this question. However, the example above shows that this need not be true if the generically finite ring homomorphism is not birational.
add a comment |
Your Answer
StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function () {
return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function () {
StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix) {
StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["$", "$"], ["\\(","\\)"]]);
});
});
}, "mathjax-editing");
StackExchange.ready(function() {
var channelOptions = {
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "504"
};
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);
StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
createEditor();
});
}
else {
createEditor();
}
});
function createEditor() {
StackExchange.prepareEditor({
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: true,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: 10,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader: {
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
},
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
});
}
});
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmathoverflow.net%2fquestions%2f319855%2fa-question-on-dominant-morphism-of-affine-schemes%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
The comment of @MatthieuRomagny gives a link to some positive answers under additional hypotheses. Nonetheless, the answer is negative without further hypotheses. Here is one counterexample.
Let $k$ be a field, and let $A$ be the polynomial ring $k[s,t,u]$. Let $B$ be the ring $k[x,y,z,w]/langle zw-1 rangle$. Both of these are finitely generated $k$-algebras that are regular, in fact $k$-smooth. Now consider the $k$-algebra homomorphism, $$p:Ato B, p(s) = x(1-x), p(t) = xy, p(u) = z(1-xz).$$ If we invert the element $s$ in $A$ and the image element $x(1-x)$ in $B$, then the induced ring homomorphism is finite and flat of rank $4$. In particular, the localized ring homomorphism is injective. Since the natural map from $A$ to $A[1/s]$ is injective, also $p$ is injective.
Finally, consider the prime ideal $P=langle s,t,urangle$ in $A$. There is precisely one prime lying above this prime, namely $langle x-1,y,z-1,w-1rangle$. However, the prime ideal $Q=langle s,t rangle$ has infinitely many primes lying over it, e.g., $langle x,q(y) rangle$ where $q(y)in k[y]$ is an arbitrary nonzero, noninvertible element that is irreducible. Since $Q$ is contained in $P$, for every $fin Asetminus P$, also $f$ is in $Asetminus Q$. Thus, the ideal $QA_f$ is a prime ideal of $A_f$. So the induced ring homomorphism $A_f to B_{p(f)}$ still admits a prime ideal $QA_f$ that has infinitely many primes lying over it in $B_{p(f)}$.
There is an even easier counterexample if we allow that the set of primes lying over $P=langle s,t,u rangle$ is empty, namely the self-map, $$r:Ato A, r(s) = s, r(t) = st, r(u) = 1-su.$$ This ring homomorphism is even birational.
Please note, there is a partial positive answer in the birational case. Even assuming that $A$ is only normal, the connectedness part of Zariki's Main Theorem implies that if the fiber over $P$ intersects the quasi-finite locus of the morphism inside $text{Spec} B$, then the morphism becomes an isomorphism after inverting some $fin Asetminus P$. Perhaps this is the result that motivated this question. However, the example above shows that this need not be true if the generically finite ring homomorphism is not birational.
add a comment |
The comment of @MatthieuRomagny gives a link to some positive answers under additional hypotheses. Nonetheless, the answer is negative without further hypotheses. Here is one counterexample.
Let $k$ be a field, and let $A$ be the polynomial ring $k[s,t,u]$. Let $B$ be the ring $k[x,y,z,w]/langle zw-1 rangle$. Both of these are finitely generated $k$-algebras that are regular, in fact $k$-smooth. Now consider the $k$-algebra homomorphism, $$p:Ato B, p(s) = x(1-x), p(t) = xy, p(u) = z(1-xz).$$ If we invert the element $s$ in $A$ and the image element $x(1-x)$ in $B$, then the induced ring homomorphism is finite and flat of rank $4$. In particular, the localized ring homomorphism is injective. Since the natural map from $A$ to $A[1/s]$ is injective, also $p$ is injective.
Finally, consider the prime ideal $P=langle s,t,urangle$ in $A$. There is precisely one prime lying above this prime, namely $langle x-1,y,z-1,w-1rangle$. However, the prime ideal $Q=langle s,t rangle$ has infinitely many primes lying over it, e.g., $langle x,q(y) rangle$ where $q(y)in k[y]$ is an arbitrary nonzero, noninvertible element that is irreducible. Since $Q$ is contained in $P$, for every $fin Asetminus P$, also $f$ is in $Asetminus Q$. Thus, the ideal $QA_f$ is a prime ideal of $A_f$. So the induced ring homomorphism $A_f to B_{p(f)}$ still admits a prime ideal $QA_f$ that has infinitely many primes lying over it in $B_{p(f)}$.
There is an even easier counterexample if we allow that the set of primes lying over $P=langle s,t,u rangle$ is empty, namely the self-map, $$r:Ato A, r(s) = s, r(t) = st, r(u) = 1-su.$$ This ring homomorphism is even birational.
Please note, there is a partial positive answer in the birational case. Even assuming that $A$ is only normal, the connectedness part of Zariki's Main Theorem implies that if the fiber over $P$ intersects the quasi-finite locus of the morphism inside $text{Spec} B$, then the morphism becomes an isomorphism after inverting some $fin Asetminus P$. Perhaps this is the result that motivated this question. However, the example above shows that this need not be true if the generically finite ring homomorphism is not birational.
add a comment |
The comment of @MatthieuRomagny gives a link to some positive answers under additional hypotheses. Nonetheless, the answer is negative without further hypotheses. Here is one counterexample.
Let $k$ be a field, and let $A$ be the polynomial ring $k[s,t,u]$. Let $B$ be the ring $k[x,y,z,w]/langle zw-1 rangle$. Both of these are finitely generated $k$-algebras that are regular, in fact $k$-smooth. Now consider the $k$-algebra homomorphism, $$p:Ato B, p(s) = x(1-x), p(t) = xy, p(u) = z(1-xz).$$ If we invert the element $s$ in $A$ and the image element $x(1-x)$ in $B$, then the induced ring homomorphism is finite and flat of rank $4$. In particular, the localized ring homomorphism is injective. Since the natural map from $A$ to $A[1/s]$ is injective, also $p$ is injective.
Finally, consider the prime ideal $P=langle s,t,urangle$ in $A$. There is precisely one prime lying above this prime, namely $langle x-1,y,z-1,w-1rangle$. However, the prime ideal $Q=langle s,t rangle$ has infinitely many primes lying over it, e.g., $langle x,q(y) rangle$ where $q(y)in k[y]$ is an arbitrary nonzero, noninvertible element that is irreducible. Since $Q$ is contained in $P$, for every $fin Asetminus P$, also $f$ is in $Asetminus Q$. Thus, the ideal $QA_f$ is a prime ideal of $A_f$. So the induced ring homomorphism $A_f to B_{p(f)}$ still admits a prime ideal $QA_f$ that has infinitely many primes lying over it in $B_{p(f)}$.
There is an even easier counterexample if we allow that the set of primes lying over $P=langle s,t,u rangle$ is empty, namely the self-map, $$r:Ato A, r(s) = s, r(t) = st, r(u) = 1-su.$$ This ring homomorphism is even birational.
Please note, there is a partial positive answer in the birational case. Even assuming that $A$ is only normal, the connectedness part of Zariki's Main Theorem implies that if the fiber over $P$ intersects the quasi-finite locus of the morphism inside $text{Spec} B$, then the morphism becomes an isomorphism after inverting some $fin Asetminus P$. Perhaps this is the result that motivated this question. However, the example above shows that this need not be true if the generically finite ring homomorphism is not birational.
The comment of @MatthieuRomagny gives a link to some positive answers under additional hypotheses. Nonetheless, the answer is negative without further hypotheses. Here is one counterexample.
Let $k$ be a field, and let $A$ be the polynomial ring $k[s,t,u]$. Let $B$ be the ring $k[x,y,z,w]/langle zw-1 rangle$. Both of these are finitely generated $k$-algebras that are regular, in fact $k$-smooth. Now consider the $k$-algebra homomorphism, $$p:Ato B, p(s) = x(1-x), p(t) = xy, p(u) = z(1-xz).$$ If we invert the element $s$ in $A$ and the image element $x(1-x)$ in $B$, then the induced ring homomorphism is finite and flat of rank $4$. In particular, the localized ring homomorphism is injective. Since the natural map from $A$ to $A[1/s]$ is injective, also $p$ is injective.
Finally, consider the prime ideal $P=langle s,t,urangle$ in $A$. There is precisely one prime lying above this prime, namely $langle x-1,y,z-1,w-1rangle$. However, the prime ideal $Q=langle s,t rangle$ has infinitely many primes lying over it, e.g., $langle x,q(y) rangle$ where $q(y)in k[y]$ is an arbitrary nonzero, noninvertible element that is irreducible. Since $Q$ is contained in $P$, for every $fin Asetminus P$, also $f$ is in $Asetminus Q$. Thus, the ideal $QA_f$ is a prime ideal of $A_f$. So the induced ring homomorphism $A_f to B_{p(f)}$ still admits a prime ideal $QA_f$ that has infinitely many primes lying over it in $B_{p(f)}$.
There is an even easier counterexample if we allow that the set of primes lying over $P=langle s,t,u rangle$ is empty, namely the self-map, $$r:Ato A, r(s) = s, r(t) = st, r(u) = 1-su.$$ This ring homomorphism is even birational.
Please note, there is a partial positive answer in the birational case. Even assuming that $A$ is only normal, the connectedness part of Zariki's Main Theorem implies that if the fiber over $P$ intersects the quasi-finite locus of the morphism inside $text{Spec} B$, then the morphism becomes an isomorphism after inverting some $fin Asetminus P$. Perhaps this is the result that motivated this question. However, the example above shows that this need not be true if the generically finite ring homomorphism is not birational.
answered 28 mins ago
community wiki
Jason Starr
add a comment |
add a comment |
Thanks for contributing an answer to MathOverflow!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Some of your past answers have not been well-received, and you're in danger of being blocked from answering.
Please pay close attention to the following guidance:
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmathoverflow.net%2fquestions%2f319855%2fa-question-on-dominant-morphism-of-affine-schemes%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
I am not able to understand where is the dominant morphism of Affine schemes...
– Praphulla Koushik
4 hours ago
@PraphullaKoushik: just the inclusion $A to B$ ...
– user521337
4 hours ago
Do you think title can be edited to make it clearer or it is difficult to say this in one line.. I am not questioning anything I am simply asking.. Can you tell how does algebraic geometry tag is relevant here?
– Praphulla Koushik
4 hours ago
@PraphullaKoushik: In algebraic geometric terms ... let $X,Y$ be integral, finite type, affine $mathbb C$-schemes with $dim X=dim Y$ with $Y$ non-singular, normal. Let $f: X to Y$ be a dominant morphism. Let $U:={yin Y : f^{-1}({y}) $ is finite and non-empty $}$ . Question: Is $U$ open ?
– user521337
4 hours ago
2
This is a duplicate from [mathoverflow.net/questions/193/…
– Matthieu Romagny
1 hour ago