Does liberal democracy require a significant amount of free-will in order to function?












4














In one of his articles/books, Yuval-Noah-Harari argues that liberal democracy might be obsolete if human agency is greatly reduced by technology:




Information technology is continuing to leap forward; biotechnology is
beginning to provide a window into our inner lives—our emotions,
thoughts, and choices. Together, infotech and biotech will create
unprecedented upheavals in human society, eroding human agency and,
possibly, subverting human desires. Under such conditions, liberal
democracy and free-market economics might become obsolete.




If I understand correctly human agency is closely related to free-will:



(..) human agency is subtly distinct from the concept of free will, the philosophical doctrine that our choices are not the product of causal chains, but are significantly free or undetermined.



However, I do not understand why liberal democracy is in peril if human agency is reduced. By ensuring free elections humans, the result should theoretically reflect the votes of all people regardless of the amount of "agency" involved.



Is there a political theory that connects liberal democracy to the concept of "free-will"?



Question: Does liberal democracy require a significant amount of free-will in order to function?










share|improve this question


















  • 1




    I would guess that freewill is unnecessary for democracy, but a fuller understanding of the forces that guide human decision making could potentially render democracy an inefficient and/or unnecessary social structure.
    – magnus.orion
    3 hours ago






  • 1




    Not sure how to make a properly-scoped answer (or if that's even possible) but one angle to lok at this is for example Big Data/AI predictive systems that judge people (parole systems are already in existence, other Minority-Report style stuff isn't that far off - think China's use of technology in its recent social currency and policing).
    – user4012
    2 hours ago
















4














In one of his articles/books, Yuval-Noah-Harari argues that liberal democracy might be obsolete if human agency is greatly reduced by technology:




Information technology is continuing to leap forward; biotechnology is
beginning to provide a window into our inner lives—our emotions,
thoughts, and choices. Together, infotech and biotech will create
unprecedented upheavals in human society, eroding human agency and,
possibly, subverting human desires. Under such conditions, liberal
democracy and free-market economics might become obsolete.




If I understand correctly human agency is closely related to free-will:



(..) human agency is subtly distinct from the concept of free will, the philosophical doctrine that our choices are not the product of causal chains, but are significantly free or undetermined.



However, I do not understand why liberal democracy is in peril if human agency is reduced. By ensuring free elections humans, the result should theoretically reflect the votes of all people regardless of the amount of "agency" involved.



Is there a political theory that connects liberal democracy to the concept of "free-will"?



Question: Does liberal democracy require a significant amount of free-will in order to function?










share|improve this question


















  • 1




    I would guess that freewill is unnecessary for democracy, but a fuller understanding of the forces that guide human decision making could potentially render democracy an inefficient and/or unnecessary social structure.
    – magnus.orion
    3 hours ago






  • 1




    Not sure how to make a properly-scoped answer (or if that's even possible) but one angle to lok at this is for example Big Data/AI predictive systems that judge people (parole systems are already in existence, other Minority-Report style stuff isn't that far off - think China's use of technology in its recent social currency and policing).
    – user4012
    2 hours ago














4












4








4


1





In one of his articles/books, Yuval-Noah-Harari argues that liberal democracy might be obsolete if human agency is greatly reduced by technology:




Information technology is continuing to leap forward; biotechnology is
beginning to provide a window into our inner lives—our emotions,
thoughts, and choices. Together, infotech and biotech will create
unprecedented upheavals in human society, eroding human agency and,
possibly, subverting human desires. Under such conditions, liberal
democracy and free-market economics might become obsolete.




If I understand correctly human agency is closely related to free-will:



(..) human agency is subtly distinct from the concept of free will, the philosophical doctrine that our choices are not the product of causal chains, but are significantly free or undetermined.



However, I do not understand why liberal democracy is in peril if human agency is reduced. By ensuring free elections humans, the result should theoretically reflect the votes of all people regardless of the amount of "agency" involved.



Is there a political theory that connects liberal democracy to the concept of "free-will"?



Question: Does liberal democracy require a significant amount of free-will in order to function?










share|improve this question













In one of his articles/books, Yuval-Noah-Harari argues that liberal democracy might be obsolete if human agency is greatly reduced by technology:




Information technology is continuing to leap forward; biotechnology is
beginning to provide a window into our inner lives—our emotions,
thoughts, and choices. Together, infotech and biotech will create
unprecedented upheavals in human society, eroding human agency and,
possibly, subverting human desires. Under such conditions, liberal
democracy and free-market economics might become obsolete.




If I understand correctly human agency is closely related to free-will:



(..) human agency is subtly distinct from the concept of free will, the philosophical doctrine that our choices are not the product of causal chains, but are significantly free or undetermined.



However, I do not understand why liberal democracy is in peril if human agency is reduced. By ensuring free elections humans, the result should theoretically reflect the votes of all people regardless of the amount of "agency" involved.



Is there a political theory that connects liberal democracy to the concept of "free-will"?



Question: Does liberal democracy require a significant amount of free-will in order to function?







democracy political-theory






share|improve this question













share|improve this question











share|improve this question




share|improve this question










asked 3 hours ago









Alexei

15.1k1784161




15.1k1784161








  • 1




    I would guess that freewill is unnecessary for democracy, but a fuller understanding of the forces that guide human decision making could potentially render democracy an inefficient and/or unnecessary social structure.
    – magnus.orion
    3 hours ago






  • 1




    Not sure how to make a properly-scoped answer (or if that's even possible) but one angle to lok at this is for example Big Data/AI predictive systems that judge people (parole systems are already in existence, other Minority-Report style stuff isn't that far off - think China's use of technology in its recent social currency and policing).
    – user4012
    2 hours ago














  • 1




    I would guess that freewill is unnecessary for democracy, but a fuller understanding of the forces that guide human decision making could potentially render democracy an inefficient and/or unnecessary social structure.
    – magnus.orion
    3 hours ago






  • 1




    Not sure how to make a properly-scoped answer (or if that's even possible) but one angle to lok at this is for example Big Data/AI predictive systems that judge people (parole systems are already in existence, other Minority-Report style stuff isn't that far off - think China's use of technology in its recent social currency and policing).
    – user4012
    2 hours ago








1




1




I would guess that freewill is unnecessary for democracy, but a fuller understanding of the forces that guide human decision making could potentially render democracy an inefficient and/or unnecessary social structure.
– magnus.orion
3 hours ago




I would guess that freewill is unnecessary for democracy, but a fuller understanding of the forces that guide human decision making could potentially render democracy an inefficient and/or unnecessary social structure.
– magnus.orion
3 hours ago




1




1




Not sure how to make a properly-scoped answer (or if that's even possible) but one angle to lok at this is for example Big Data/AI predictive systems that judge people (parole systems are already in existence, other Minority-Report style stuff isn't that far off - think China's use of technology in its recent social currency and policing).
– user4012
2 hours ago




Not sure how to make a properly-scoped answer (or if that's even possible) but one angle to lok at this is for example Big Data/AI predictive systems that judge people (parole systems are already in existence, other Minority-Report style stuff isn't that far off - think China's use of technology in its recent social currency and policing).
– user4012
2 hours ago










3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes


















2














I disagree with the assumption of the article that technology takes away our free agency. I think that technology provides more avenues for our free agency and many (maybe too many) ways to express our opinions and desires. It certainly gives us more time to think about how our lives could be better and compare ourselves to others who may have more or less we do.



I would agree with the assumption stated above that democracy does require free agency or free will. If humans had no individual free will or agency then there would be no need to express an opinion and no need to mediate conflicts because government could be an automated system that we would make requests to. We would then go about governing ourselves using algorithms programmed to certain situations. An example is the book, 1984 by George Orwell. Technology rules their lives and free-thinking is discouraged and persecuted.



As a sidebar, I think that the greater danger to democracy is not lack free agency, but lack of personal responsibility. Everyone paints him/herself a victim and blames others for his/her problems instead of taking ownership for the part that put him/her in that position. Lack of personal responsibility is, in my opinion, a greater danger to democracy today.






share|improve this answer





























    2














    Democracy does not require free will because the existence of democracy does not prove the existence of free will. A set of computer programs could be programmed to execute choices through voting where they cast their votes based on their circumstances and then all honor the result. No one would argue the computer programs are not executing a decision through voting "democratically" or that the robots have "free will", so on its surface it seems that democracy does not require free will.



    It is entirely possible that human beings don't have free will. In such a case we could still have democracy. However, if there was an understanding of the exact process that humans used to decide their vote, it would logically be potentially possible to cut out the middle man and put in place exactly what the people would have voted for anyway without them voting.



    Another way that the lack of free will could challenge democracy would be if people's choices were purely the product of their environment or circumstance. If that was the case their environment or circumstance could be manipulated to coerce their voting behavior (we call this in everyday parlance "advertising"). In this case, again, it is possible that the democratic system is thus somewhat redundant to the process of simply convincing everyone to go along with things. As technology and understanding of psychology become better it is conceivable that there would exist methods that could be tailor made to convince each and every individual in society.



    Whether this level of understanding of human decision making is likely is a different question, and whether the article's criticism of this potential circumstance is valid is also a different question.






    share|improve this answer





















    • Hi Magnus, you raise some interesting questions. I understand your question that human beings may not have free will. Will we ever really be able to know the answer to the question, free will or predetermination? Maybe we might not have free will, but maybe we need the perception of it. Otherwise, we might sit and twiddle our thumbs all day... Just something to think about.
      – Karlomanio
      7 mins ago










    • @Karlomanio It is an interesting question, and I'd be happy to discuss the topic of whether we have free will elsewhere, but it's outside the scope of this particular question, and likely outside the scope of politics.se, but philosophy.se might be more accepting of that topic.
      – magnus.orion
      4 mins ago





















    0















    Question: Does liberal democracy require a significant amount of free-will in order to function?




    Yes. That is the entire point of democracy. You, the individual, is responsible for your own free-will. That free-will of yours establishes - and actively does democracy - in order to maintain your own individuality within that body politic; your liberty to express your free-will. You are responsible for your own part in maintaining the democracy and interaction with other humans that have formed the democracy. When an individual in a democracy defers their responsibility to another human or entity, they cease to exercise their own free-will and thereby place decrease their contribution to the body politic as a whole. Democracy is not static, the system of self-government requires individual action to sustain the entire commonwealth.



    An ancient Chinese proverb is roughly that the functioning society is where the individual who encounters the tree on the road stops to move the tree off of the road, without looking around to see if their neighbor is watching them to gain social recognition. The tree is moved off of the road, without fanfare, for the continued functioning of the whole body politic. No recognition is required, the action is performed for the good of the whole. The context was not democracy, though the same principle applies within a democracy.



    You are "free-will" and "liberal democracy".





    Technology does not supplant free-will, or human agency. The human still has the choice to turn off the machine, or not use the machine at all.



    The linked article makes astounding claims without substantiation




    In 2018 the common person feels increasingly irrelevant.




    which is a preposterous statement.



    Later there is a section which discusses chess




    Yet in recent years, computers have become so good at playing chess
    that their human collaborators have lost their value and might soon
    become entirely irrelevant.




    which suggests that the human who made the machine might be supplanted by the machine itself, which is impossible, if only due to the fact that the machine requires a power source, and bug fixes. That is, if an individual decides to play chess with a machine rather than a human being, or invest time in creating AI for chess. Chess between two humans cannot be replaced by chess between a human and a machine, nor a machine and a machine, certainly not for humans who only play chess for a value. The machine has no article of value to place on the table, thus some humans might not ever play chess with a machine that is utterly valueless.



    Even the most sophisticated technology might provide a false sense of security to some, but not all. And some never forget that technology can be overcome, with sufficient effort. One example of this is the EMV, or "chip" debit and credit cards, which were introduced into circulation across the planet for various reasons; including "security"; insurance arrangements between card processing companies and financial institutions; see You Might Have Gotten a New Credit Card With a New Chip Embedded in the Front — Here’s What You Need to Know About It; These two guys just hacked the chip card that was supposed to keep your credit card safe; EMV in a Nutshell; Cloning Credit Cards: A Combined Pre-play and Downgrade Attack on EMV Contactless
    Increasing Security and Reducing Fraud with EMV Chip and PCI Standards;
    specifications).



    However, when faced with would-be impenetrable technology (does not exist) hardware or software, the attacker might sit, scratch their head, and then snap their fingers while simultaneously remembering that they do not need to spend $100K to build a clean room to get what they want; they can revert to bypassing the technology altogether, and deal with the base factor of all politics: the human element, which should provide a reference point for the limits of technology relevant to actual human political interaction



    enter image description here






    share|improve this answer























    • This answer seems all over the place, rambling on about topics that seem only tangentially related to the question at best. It also makes an appeal to something it calls "the human element" which I can't help but feel is undefined and an appeal to an unjustified or unsupported feeling of human exceptionalism.
      – magnus.orion
      1 hour ago










    • @magnus.orion The link at the question is all over the place, and makes unsubstantiated claims. The point is that the concept of democracy is about the individual. Don't eat GMO food. Don't use a "smartphone" at every waking moment. If you do eat chicken (2600 chickens are slaughtered for food each second/52 billion a year) understand that at the current growth rate of the poultry industry even producing grain to feed a 50-day chicken is unsustainable and if you protest, protest by saying "no". Else, don't complain. At the root is always the human, which technology (man-made) cannot replace.
      – guest271314
      1 hour ago












    • It may do so, it may not. But that doesn't change my criticism of your answer or your reply to me.
      – magnus.orion
      1 hour ago










    • @magnus.orion The "human element" is the physical manifestation of the individual human being. The question deals with "free-will" and "liberal democracy" as if they are mysteries, out there somewhere, dependent upon someone or something else, not the individual who is contemplating their environment and their repsonsibilities. The answer says: you are "free-will" and "liberal democracy". If "technology" would somehow subvert one's own free-will, that individual has toppled their own individuality, and their own democracy. Am aware of the tendency of humans to engage in criticism.
      – guest271314
      1 hour ago













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    3 Answers
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    I disagree with the assumption of the article that technology takes away our free agency. I think that technology provides more avenues for our free agency and many (maybe too many) ways to express our opinions and desires. It certainly gives us more time to think about how our lives could be better and compare ourselves to others who may have more or less we do.



    I would agree with the assumption stated above that democracy does require free agency or free will. If humans had no individual free will or agency then there would be no need to express an opinion and no need to mediate conflicts because government could be an automated system that we would make requests to. We would then go about governing ourselves using algorithms programmed to certain situations. An example is the book, 1984 by George Orwell. Technology rules their lives and free-thinking is discouraged and persecuted.



    As a sidebar, I think that the greater danger to democracy is not lack free agency, but lack of personal responsibility. Everyone paints him/herself a victim and blames others for his/her problems instead of taking ownership for the part that put him/her in that position. Lack of personal responsibility is, in my opinion, a greater danger to democracy today.






    share|improve this answer


























      2














      I disagree with the assumption of the article that technology takes away our free agency. I think that technology provides more avenues for our free agency and many (maybe too many) ways to express our opinions and desires. It certainly gives us more time to think about how our lives could be better and compare ourselves to others who may have more or less we do.



      I would agree with the assumption stated above that democracy does require free agency or free will. If humans had no individual free will or agency then there would be no need to express an opinion and no need to mediate conflicts because government could be an automated system that we would make requests to. We would then go about governing ourselves using algorithms programmed to certain situations. An example is the book, 1984 by George Orwell. Technology rules their lives and free-thinking is discouraged and persecuted.



      As a sidebar, I think that the greater danger to democracy is not lack free agency, but lack of personal responsibility. Everyone paints him/herself a victim and blames others for his/her problems instead of taking ownership for the part that put him/her in that position. Lack of personal responsibility is, in my opinion, a greater danger to democracy today.






      share|improve this answer
























        2












        2








        2






        I disagree with the assumption of the article that technology takes away our free agency. I think that technology provides more avenues for our free agency and many (maybe too many) ways to express our opinions and desires. It certainly gives us more time to think about how our lives could be better and compare ourselves to others who may have more or less we do.



        I would agree with the assumption stated above that democracy does require free agency or free will. If humans had no individual free will or agency then there would be no need to express an opinion and no need to mediate conflicts because government could be an automated system that we would make requests to. We would then go about governing ourselves using algorithms programmed to certain situations. An example is the book, 1984 by George Orwell. Technology rules their lives and free-thinking is discouraged and persecuted.



        As a sidebar, I think that the greater danger to democracy is not lack free agency, but lack of personal responsibility. Everyone paints him/herself a victim and blames others for his/her problems instead of taking ownership for the part that put him/her in that position. Lack of personal responsibility is, in my opinion, a greater danger to democracy today.






        share|improve this answer












        I disagree with the assumption of the article that technology takes away our free agency. I think that technology provides more avenues for our free agency and many (maybe too many) ways to express our opinions and desires. It certainly gives us more time to think about how our lives could be better and compare ourselves to others who may have more or less we do.



        I would agree with the assumption stated above that democracy does require free agency or free will. If humans had no individual free will or agency then there would be no need to express an opinion and no need to mediate conflicts because government could be an automated system that we would make requests to. We would then go about governing ourselves using algorithms programmed to certain situations. An example is the book, 1984 by George Orwell. Technology rules their lives and free-thinking is discouraged and persecuted.



        As a sidebar, I think that the greater danger to democracy is not lack free agency, but lack of personal responsibility. Everyone paints him/herself a victim and blames others for his/her problems instead of taking ownership for the part that put him/her in that position. Lack of personal responsibility is, in my opinion, a greater danger to democracy today.







        share|improve this answer












        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer










        answered 1 hour ago









        Karlomanio

        2889




        2889























            2














            Democracy does not require free will because the existence of democracy does not prove the existence of free will. A set of computer programs could be programmed to execute choices through voting where they cast their votes based on their circumstances and then all honor the result. No one would argue the computer programs are not executing a decision through voting "democratically" or that the robots have "free will", so on its surface it seems that democracy does not require free will.



            It is entirely possible that human beings don't have free will. In such a case we could still have democracy. However, if there was an understanding of the exact process that humans used to decide their vote, it would logically be potentially possible to cut out the middle man and put in place exactly what the people would have voted for anyway without them voting.



            Another way that the lack of free will could challenge democracy would be if people's choices were purely the product of their environment or circumstance. If that was the case their environment or circumstance could be manipulated to coerce their voting behavior (we call this in everyday parlance "advertising"). In this case, again, it is possible that the democratic system is thus somewhat redundant to the process of simply convincing everyone to go along with things. As technology and understanding of psychology become better it is conceivable that there would exist methods that could be tailor made to convince each and every individual in society.



            Whether this level of understanding of human decision making is likely is a different question, and whether the article's criticism of this potential circumstance is valid is also a different question.






            share|improve this answer





















            • Hi Magnus, you raise some interesting questions. I understand your question that human beings may not have free will. Will we ever really be able to know the answer to the question, free will or predetermination? Maybe we might not have free will, but maybe we need the perception of it. Otherwise, we might sit and twiddle our thumbs all day... Just something to think about.
              – Karlomanio
              7 mins ago










            • @Karlomanio It is an interesting question, and I'd be happy to discuss the topic of whether we have free will elsewhere, but it's outside the scope of this particular question, and likely outside the scope of politics.se, but philosophy.se might be more accepting of that topic.
              – magnus.orion
              4 mins ago


















            2














            Democracy does not require free will because the existence of democracy does not prove the existence of free will. A set of computer programs could be programmed to execute choices through voting where they cast their votes based on their circumstances and then all honor the result. No one would argue the computer programs are not executing a decision through voting "democratically" or that the robots have "free will", so on its surface it seems that democracy does not require free will.



            It is entirely possible that human beings don't have free will. In such a case we could still have democracy. However, if there was an understanding of the exact process that humans used to decide their vote, it would logically be potentially possible to cut out the middle man and put in place exactly what the people would have voted for anyway without them voting.



            Another way that the lack of free will could challenge democracy would be if people's choices were purely the product of their environment or circumstance. If that was the case their environment or circumstance could be manipulated to coerce their voting behavior (we call this in everyday parlance "advertising"). In this case, again, it is possible that the democratic system is thus somewhat redundant to the process of simply convincing everyone to go along with things. As technology and understanding of psychology become better it is conceivable that there would exist methods that could be tailor made to convince each and every individual in society.



            Whether this level of understanding of human decision making is likely is a different question, and whether the article's criticism of this potential circumstance is valid is also a different question.






            share|improve this answer





















            • Hi Magnus, you raise some interesting questions. I understand your question that human beings may not have free will. Will we ever really be able to know the answer to the question, free will or predetermination? Maybe we might not have free will, but maybe we need the perception of it. Otherwise, we might sit and twiddle our thumbs all day... Just something to think about.
              – Karlomanio
              7 mins ago










            • @Karlomanio It is an interesting question, and I'd be happy to discuss the topic of whether we have free will elsewhere, but it's outside the scope of this particular question, and likely outside the scope of politics.se, but philosophy.se might be more accepting of that topic.
              – magnus.orion
              4 mins ago
















            2












            2








            2






            Democracy does not require free will because the existence of democracy does not prove the existence of free will. A set of computer programs could be programmed to execute choices through voting where they cast their votes based on their circumstances and then all honor the result. No one would argue the computer programs are not executing a decision through voting "democratically" or that the robots have "free will", so on its surface it seems that democracy does not require free will.



            It is entirely possible that human beings don't have free will. In such a case we could still have democracy. However, if there was an understanding of the exact process that humans used to decide their vote, it would logically be potentially possible to cut out the middle man and put in place exactly what the people would have voted for anyway without them voting.



            Another way that the lack of free will could challenge democracy would be if people's choices were purely the product of their environment or circumstance. If that was the case their environment or circumstance could be manipulated to coerce their voting behavior (we call this in everyday parlance "advertising"). In this case, again, it is possible that the democratic system is thus somewhat redundant to the process of simply convincing everyone to go along with things. As technology and understanding of psychology become better it is conceivable that there would exist methods that could be tailor made to convince each and every individual in society.



            Whether this level of understanding of human decision making is likely is a different question, and whether the article's criticism of this potential circumstance is valid is also a different question.






            share|improve this answer












            Democracy does not require free will because the existence of democracy does not prove the existence of free will. A set of computer programs could be programmed to execute choices through voting where they cast their votes based on their circumstances and then all honor the result. No one would argue the computer programs are not executing a decision through voting "democratically" or that the robots have "free will", so on its surface it seems that democracy does not require free will.



            It is entirely possible that human beings don't have free will. In such a case we could still have democracy. However, if there was an understanding of the exact process that humans used to decide their vote, it would logically be potentially possible to cut out the middle man and put in place exactly what the people would have voted for anyway without them voting.



            Another way that the lack of free will could challenge democracy would be if people's choices were purely the product of their environment or circumstance. If that was the case their environment or circumstance could be manipulated to coerce their voting behavior (we call this in everyday parlance "advertising"). In this case, again, it is possible that the democratic system is thus somewhat redundant to the process of simply convincing everyone to go along with things. As technology and understanding of psychology become better it is conceivable that there would exist methods that could be tailor made to convince each and every individual in society.



            Whether this level of understanding of human decision making is likely is a different question, and whether the article's criticism of this potential circumstance is valid is also a different question.







            share|improve this answer












            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer










            answered 36 mins ago









            magnus.orion

            409111




            409111












            • Hi Magnus, you raise some interesting questions. I understand your question that human beings may not have free will. Will we ever really be able to know the answer to the question, free will or predetermination? Maybe we might not have free will, but maybe we need the perception of it. Otherwise, we might sit and twiddle our thumbs all day... Just something to think about.
              – Karlomanio
              7 mins ago










            • @Karlomanio It is an interesting question, and I'd be happy to discuss the topic of whether we have free will elsewhere, but it's outside the scope of this particular question, and likely outside the scope of politics.se, but philosophy.se might be more accepting of that topic.
              – magnus.orion
              4 mins ago




















            • Hi Magnus, you raise some interesting questions. I understand your question that human beings may not have free will. Will we ever really be able to know the answer to the question, free will or predetermination? Maybe we might not have free will, but maybe we need the perception of it. Otherwise, we might sit and twiddle our thumbs all day... Just something to think about.
              – Karlomanio
              7 mins ago










            • @Karlomanio It is an interesting question, and I'd be happy to discuss the topic of whether we have free will elsewhere, but it's outside the scope of this particular question, and likely outside the scope of politics.se, but philosophy.se might be more accepting of that topic.
              – magnus.orion
              4 mins ago


















            Hi Magnus, you raise some interesting questions. I understand your question that human beings may not have free will. Will we ever really be able to know the answer to the question, free will or predetermination? Maybe we might not have free will, but maybe we need the perception of it. Otherwise, we might sit and twiddle our thumbs all day... Just something to think about.
            – Karlomanio
            7 mins ago




            Hi Magnus, you raise some interesting questions. I understand your question that human beings may not have free will. Will we ever really be able to know the answer to the question, free will or predetermination? Maybe we might not have free will, but maybe we need the perception of it. Otherwise, we might sit and twiddle our thumbs all day... Just something to think about.
            – Karlomanio
            7 mins ago












            @Karlomanio It is an interesting question, and I'd be happy to discuss the topic of whether we have free will elsewhere, but it's outside the scope of this particular question, and likely outside the scope of politics.se, but philosophy.se might be more accepting of that topic.
            – magnus.orion
            4 mins ago






            @Karlomanio It is an interesting question, and I'd be happy to discuss the topic of whether we have free will elsewhere, but it's outside the scope of this particular question, and likely outside the scope of politics.se, but philosophy.se might be more accepting of that topic.
            – magnus.orion
            4 mins ago













            0















            Question: Does liberal democracy require a significant amount of free-will in order to function?




            Yes. That is the entire point of democracy. You, the individual, is responsible for your own free-will. That free-will of yours establishes - and actively does democracy - in order to maintain your own individuality within that body politic; your liberty to express your free-will. You are responsible for your own part in maintaining the democracy and interaction with other humans that have formed the democracy. When an individual in a democracy defers their responsibility to another human or entity, they cease to exercise their own free-will and thereby place decrease their contribution to the body politic as a whole. Democracy is not static, the system of self-government requires individual action to sustain the entire commonwealth.



            An ancient Chinese proverb is roughly that the functioning society is where the individual who encounters the tree on the road stops to move the tree off of the road, without looking around to see if their neighbor is watching them to gain social recognition. The tree is moved off of the road, without fanfare, for the continued functioning of the whole body politic. No recognition is required, the action is performed for the good of the whole. The context was not democracy, though the same principle applies within a democracy.



            You are "free-will" and "liberal democracy".





            Technology does not supplant free-will, or human agency. The human still has the choice to turn off the machine, or not use the machine at all.



            The linked article makes astounding claims without substantiation




            In 2018 the common person feels increasingly irrelevant.




            which is a preposterous statement.



            Later there is a section which discusses chess




            Yet in recent years, computers have become so good at playing chess
            that their human collaborators have lost their value and might soon
            become entirely irrelevant.




            which suggests that the human who made the machine might be supplanted by the machine itself, which is impossible, if only due to the fact that the machine requires a power source, and bug fixes. That is, if an individual decides to play chess with a machine rather than a human being, or invest time in creating AI for chess. Chess between two humans cannot be replaced by chess between a human and a machine, nor a machine and a machine, certainly not for humans who only play chess for a value. The machine has no article of value to place on the table, thus some humans might not ever play chess with a machine that is utterly valueless.



            Even the most sophisticated technology might provide a false sense of security to some, but not all. And some never forget that technology can be overcome, with sufficient effort. One example of this is the EMV, or "chip" debit and credit cards, which were introduced into circulation across the planet for various reasons; including "security"; insurance arrangements between card processing companies and financial institutions; see You Might Have Gotten a New Credit Card With a New Chip Embedded in the Front — Here’s What You Need to Know About It; These two guys just hacked the chip card that was supposed to keep your credit card safe; EMV in a Nutshell; Cloning Credit Cards: A Combined Pre-play and Downgrade Attack on EMV Contactless
            Increasing Security and Reducing Fraud with EMV Chip and PCI Standards;
            specifications).



            However, when faced with would-be impenetrable technology (does not exist) hardware or software, the attacker might sit, scratch their head, and then snap their fingers while simultaneously remembering that they do not need to spend $100K to build a clean room to get what they want; they can revert to bypassing the technology altogether, and deal with the base factor of all politics: the human element, which should provide a reference point for the limits of technology relevant to actual human political interaction



            enter image description here






            share|improve this answer























            • This answer seems all over the place, rambling on about topics that seem only tangentially related to the question at best. It also makes an appeal to something it calls "the human element" which I can't help but feel is undefined and an appeal to an unjustified or unsupported feeling of human exceptionalism.
              – magnus.orion
              1 hour ago










            • @magnus.orion The link at the question is all over the place, and makes unsubstantiated claims. The point is that the concept of democracy is about the individual. Don't eat GMO food. Don't use a "smartphone" at every waking moment. If you do eat chicken (2600 chickens are slaughtered for food each second/52 billion a year) understand that at the current growth rate of the poultry industry even producing grain to feed a 50-day chicken is unsustainable and if you protest, protest by saying "no". Else, don't complain. At the root is always the human, which technology (man-made) cannot replace.
              – guest271314
              1 hour ago












            • It may do so, it may not. But that doesn't change my criticism of your answer or your reply to me.
              – magnus.orion
              1 hour ago










            • @magnus.orion The "human element" is the physical manifestation of the individual human being. The question deals with "free-will" and "liberal democracy" as if they are mysteries, out there somewhere, dependent upon someone or something else, not the individual who is contemplating their environment and their repsonsibilities. The answer says: you are "free-will" and "liberal democracy". If "technology" would somehow subvert one's own free-will, that individual has toppled their own individuality, and their own democracy. Am aware of the tendency of humans to engage in criticism.
              – guest271314
              1 hour ago


















            0















            Question: Does liberal democracy require a significant amount of free-will in order to function?




            Yes. That is the entire point of democracy. You, the individual, is responsible for your own free-will. That free-will of yours establishes - and actively does democracy - in order to maintain your own individuality within that body politic; your liberty to express your free-will. You are responsible for your own part in maintaining the democracy and interaction with other humans that have formed the democracy. When an individual in a democracy defers their responsibility to another human or entity, they cease to exercise their own free-will and thereby place decrease their contribution to the body politic as a whole. Democracy is not static, the system of self-government requires individual action to sustain the entire commonwealth.



            An ancient Chinese proverb is roughly that the functioning society is where the individual who encounters the tree on the road stops to move the tree off of the road, without looking around to see if their neighbor is watching them to gain social recognition. The tree is moved off of the road, without fanfare, for the continued functioning of the whole body politic. No recognition is required, the action is performed for the good of the whole. The context was not democracy, though the same principle applies within a democracy.



            You are "free-will" and "liberal democracy".





            Technology does not supplant free-will, or human agency. The human still has the choice to turn off the machine, or not use the machine at all.



            The linked article makes astounding claims without substantiation




            In 2018 the common person feels increasingly irrelevant.




            which is a preposterous statement.



            Later there is a section which discusses chess




            Yet in recent years, computers have become so good at playing chess
            that their human collaborators have lost their value and might soon
            become entirely irrelevant.




            which suggests that the human who made the machine might be supplanted by the machine itself, which is impossible, if only due to the fact that the machine requires a power source, and bug fixes. That is, if an individual decides to play chess with a machine rather than a human being, or invest time in creating AI for chess. Chess between two humans cannot be replaced by chess between a human and a machine, nor a machine and a machine, certainly not for humans who only play chess for a value. The machine has no article of value to place on the table, thus some humans might not ever play chess with a machine that is utterly valueless.



            Even the most sophisticated technology might provide a false sense of security to some, but not all. And some never forget that technology can be overcome, with sufficient effort. One example of this is the EMV, or "chip" debit and credit cards, which were introduced into circulation across the planet for various reasons; including "security"; insurance arrangements between card processing companies and financial institutions; see You Might Have Gotten a New Credit Card With a New Chip Embedded in the Front — Here’s What You Need to Know About It; These two guys just hacked the chip card that was supposed to keep your credit card safe; EMV in a Nutshell; Cloning Credit Cards: A Combined Pre-play and Downgrade Attack on EMV Contactless
            Increasing Security and Reducing Fraud with EMV Chip and PCI Standards;
            specifications).



            However, when faced with would-be impenetrable technology (does not exist) hardware or software, the attacker might sit, scratch their head, and then snap their fingers while simultaneously remembering that they do not need to spend $100K to build a clean room to get what they want; they can revert to bypassing the technology altogether, and deal with the base factor of all politics: the human element, which should provide a reference point for the limits of technology relevant to actual human political interaction



            enter image description here






            share|improve this answer























            • This answer seems all over the place, rambling on about topics that seem only tangentially related to the question at best. It also makes an appeal to something it calls "the human element" which I can't help but feel is undefined and an appeal to an unjustified or unsupported feeling of human exceptionalism.
              – magnus.orion
              1 hour ago










            • @magnus.orion The link at the question is all over the place, and makes unsubstantiated claims. The point is that the concept of democracy is about the individual. Don't eat GMO food. Don't use a "smartphone" at every waking moment. If you do eat chicken (2600 chickens are slaughtered for food each second/52 billion a year) understand that at the current growth rate of the poultry industry even producing grain to feed a 50-day chicken is unsustainable and if you protest, protest by saying "no". Else, don't complain. At the root is always the human, which technology (man-made) cannot replace.
              – guest271314
              1 hour ago












            • It may do so, it may not. But that doesn't change my criticism of your answer or your reply to me.
              – magnus.orion
              1 hour ago










            • @magnus.orion The "human element" is the physical manifestation of the individual human being. The question deals with "free-will" and "liberal democracy" as if they are mysteries, out there somewhere, dependent upon someone or something else, not the individual who is contemplating their environment and their repsonsibilities. The answer says: you are "free-will" and "liberal democracy". If "technology" would somehow subvert one's own free-will, that individual has toppled their own individuality, and their own democracy. Am aware of the tendency of humans to engage in criticism.
              – guest271314
              1 hour ago
















            0












            0








            0







            Question: Does liberal democracy require a significant amount of free-will in order to function?




            Yes. That is the entire point of democracy. You, the individual, is responsible for your own free-will. That free-will of yours establishes - and actively does democracy - in order to maintain your own individuality within that body politic; your liberty to express your free-will. You are responsible for your own part in maintaining the democracy and interaction with other humans that have formed the democracy. When an individual in a democracy defers their responsibility to another human or entity, they cease to exercise their own free-will and thereby place decrease their contribution to the body politic as a whole. Democracy is not static, the system of self-government requires individual action to sustain the entire commonwealth.



            An ancient Chinese proverb is roughly that the functioning society is where the individual who encounters the tree on the road stops to move the tree off of the road, without looking around to see if their neighbor is watching them to gain social recognition. The tree is moved off of the road, without fanfare, for the continued functioning of the whole body politic. No recognition is required, the action is performed for the good of the whole. The context was not democracy, though the same principle applies within a democracy.



            You are "free-will" and "liberal democracy".





            Technology does not supplant free-will, or human agency. The human still has the choice to turn off the machine, or not use the machine at all.



            The linked article makes astounding claims without substantiation




            In 2018 the common person feels increasingly irrelevant.




            which is a preposterous statement.



            Later there is a section which discusses chess




            Yet in recent years, computers have become so good at playing chess
            that their human collaborators have lost their value and might soon
            become entirely irrelevant.




            which suggests that the human who made the machine might be supplanted by the machine itself, which is impossible, if only due to the fact that the machine requires a power source, and bug fixes. That is, if an individual decides to play chess with a machine rather than a human being, or invest time in creating AI for chess. Chess between two humans cannot be replaced by chess between a human and a machine, nor a machine and a machine, certainly not for humans who only play chess for a value. The machine has no article of value to place on the table, thus some humans might not ever play chess with a machine that is utterly valueless.



            Even the most sophisticated technology might provide a false sense of security to some, but not all. And some never forget that technology can be overcome, with sufficient effort. One example of this is the EMV, or "chip" debit and credit cards, which were introduced into circulation across the planet for various reasons; including "security"; insurance arrangements between card processing companies and financial institutions; see You Might Have Gotten a New Credit Card With a New Chip Embedded in the Front — Here’s What You Need to Know About It; These two guys just hacked the chip card that was supposed to keep your credit card safe; EMV in a Nutshell; Cloning Credit Cards: A Combined Pre-play and Downgrade Attack on EMV Contactless
            Increasing Security and Reducing Fraud with EMV Chip and PCI Standards;
            specifications).



            However, when faced with would-be impenetrable technology (does not exist) hardware or software, the attacker might sit, scratch their head, and then snap their fingers while simultaneously remembering that they do not need to spend $100K to build a clean room to get what they want; they can revert to bypassing the technology altogether, and deal with the base factor of all politics: the human element, which should provide a reference point for the limits of technology relevant to actual human political interaction



            enter image description here






            share|improve this answer















            Question: Does liberal democracy require a significant amount of free-will in order to function?




            Yes. That is the entire point of democracy. You, the individual, is responsible for your own free-will. That free-will of yours establishes - and actively does democracy - in order to maintain your own individuality within that body politic; your liberty to express your free-will. You are responsible for your own part in maintaining the democracy and interaction with other humans that have formed the democracy. When an individual in a democracy defers their responsibility to another human or entity, they cease to exercise their own free-will and thereby place decrease their contribution to the body politic as a whole. Democracy is not static, the system of self-government requires individual action to sustain the entire commonwealth.



            An ancient Chinese proverb is roughly that the functioning society is where the individual who encounters the tree on the road stops to move the tree off of the road, without looking around to see if their neighbor is watching them to gain social recognition. The tree is moved off of the road, without fanfare, for the continued functioning of the whole body politic. No recognition is required, the action is performed for the good of the whole. The context was not democracy, though the same principle applies within a democracy.



            You are "free-will" and "liberal democracy".





            Technology does not supplant free-will, or human agency. The human still has the choice to turn off the machine, or not use the machine at all.



            The linked article makes astounding claims without substantiation




            In 2018 the common person feels increasingly irrelevant.




            which is a preposterous statement.



            Later there is a section which discusses chess




            Yet in recent years, computers have become so good at playing chess
            that their human collaborators have lost their value and might soon
            become entirely irrelevant.




            which suggests that the human who made the machine might be supplanted by the machine itself, which is impossible, if only due to the fact that the machine requires a power source, and bug fixes. That is, if an individual decides to play chess with a machine rather than a human being, or invest time in creating AI for chess. Chess between two humans cannot be replaced by chess between a human and a machine, nor a machine and a machine, certainly not for humans who only play chess for a value. The machine has no article of value to place on the table, thus some humans might not ever play chess with a machine that is utterly valueless.



            Even the most sophisticated technology might provide a false sense of security to some, but not all. And some never forget that technology can be overcome, with sufficient effort. One example of this is the EMV, or "chip" debit and credit cards, which were introduced into circulation across the planet for various reasons; including "security"; insurance arrangements between card processing companies and financial institutions; see You Might Have Gotten a New Credit Card With a New Chip Embedded in the Front — Here’s What You Need to Know About It; These two guys just hacked the chip card that was supposed to keep your credit card safe; EMV in a Nutshell; Cloning Credit Cards: A Combined Pre-play and Downgrade Attack on EMV Contactless
            Increasing Security and Reducing Fraud with EMV Chip and PCI Standards;
            specifications).



            However, when faced with would-be impenetrable technology (does not exist) hardware or software, the attacker might sit, scratch their head, and then snap their fingers while simultaneously remembering that they do not need to spend $100K to build a clean room to get what they want; they can revert to bypassing the technology altogether, and deal with the base factor of all politics: the human element, which should provide a reference point for the limits of technology relevant to actual human political interaction



            enter image description here







            share|improve this answer














            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer








            edited 19 mins ago

























            answered 1 hour ago









            guest271314

            1,52116




            1,52116












            • This answer seems all over the place, rambling on about topics that seem only tangentially related to the question at best. It also makes an appeal to something it calls "the human element" which I can't help but feel is undefined and an appeal to an unjustified or unsupported feeling of human exceptionalism.
              – magnus.orion
              1 hour ago










            • @magnus.orion The link at the question is all over the place, and makes unsubstantiated claims. The point is that the concept of democracy is about the individual. Don't eat GMO food. Don't use a "smartphone" at every waking moment. If you do eat chicken (2600 chickens are slaughtered for food each second/52 billion a year) understand that at the current growth rate of the poultry industry even producing grain to feed a 50-day chicken is unsustainable and if you protest, protest by saying "no". Else, don't complain. At the root is always the human, which technology (man-made) cannot replace.
              – guest271314
              1 hour ago












            • It may do so, it may not. But that doesn't change my criticism of your answer or your reply to me.
              – magnus.orion
              1 hour ago










            • @magnus.orion The "human element" is the physical manifestation of the individual human being. The question deals with "free-will" and "liberal democracy" as if they are mysteries, out there somewhere, dependent upon someone or something else, not the individual who is contemplating their environment and their repsonsibilities. The answer says: you are "free-will" and "liberal democracy". If "technology" would somehow subvert one's own free-will, that individual has toppled their own individuality, and their own democracy. Am aware of the tendency of humans to engage in criticism.
              – guest271314
              1 hour ago




















            • This answer seems all over the place, rambling on about topics that seem only tangentially related to the question at best. It also makes an appeal to something it calls "the human element" which I can't help but feel is undefined and an appeal to an unjustified or unsupported feeling of human exceptionalism.
              – magnus.orion
              1 hour ago










            • @magnus.orion The link at the question is all over the place, and makes unsubstantiated claims. The point is that the concept of democracy is about the individual. Don't eat GMO food. Don't use a "smartphone" at every waking moment. If you do eat chicken (2600 chickens are slaughtered for food each second/52 billion a year) understand that at the current growth rate of the poultry industry even producing grain to feed a 50-day chicken is unsustainable and if you protest, protest by saying "no". Else, don't complain. At the root is always the human, which technology (man-made) cannot replace.
              – guest271314
              1 hour ago












            • It may do so, it may not. But that doesn't change my criticism of your answer or your reply to me.
              – magnus.orion
              1 hour ago










            • @magnus.orion The "human element" is the physical manifestation of the individual human being. The question deals with "free-will" and "liberal democracy" as if they are mysteries, out there somewhere, dependent upon someone or something else, not the individual who is contemplating their environment and their repsonsibilities. The answer says: you are "free-will" and "liberal democracy". If "technology" would somehow subvert one's own free-will, that individual has toppled their own individuality, and their own democracy. Am aware of the tendency of humans to engage in criticism.
              – guest271314
              1 hour ago


















            This answer seems all over the place, rambling on about topics that seem only tangentially related to the question at best. It also makes an appeal to something it calls "the human element" which I can't help but feel is undefined and an appeal to an unjustified or unsupported feeling of human exceptionalism.
            – magnus.orion
            1 hour ago




            This answer seems all over the place, rambling on about topics that seem only tangentially related to the question at best. It also makes an appeal to something it calls "the human element" which I can't help but feel is undefined and an appeal to an unjustified or unsupported feeling of human exceptionalism.
            – magnus.orion
            1 hour ago












            @magnus.orion The link at the question is all over the place, and makes unsubstantiated claims. The point is that the concept of democracy is about the individual. Don't eat GMO food. Don't use a "smartphone" at every waking moment. If you do eat chicken (2600 chickens are slaughtered for food each second/52 billion a year) understand that at the current growth rate of the poultry industry even producing grain to feed a 50-day chicken is unsustainable and if you protest, protest by saying "no". Else, don't complain. At the root is always the human, which technology (man-made) cannot replace.
            – guest271314
            1 hour ago






            @magnus.orion The link at the question is all over the place, and makes unsubstantiated claims. The point is that the concept of democracy is about the individual. Don't eat GMO food. Don't use a "smartphone" at every waking moment. If you do eat chicken (2600 chickens are slaughtered for food each second/52 billion a year) understand that at the current growth rate of the poultry industry even producing grain to feed a 50-day chicken is unsustainable and if you protest, protest by saying "no". Else, don't complain. At the root is always the human, which technology (man-made) cannot replace.
            – guest271314
            1 hour ago














            It may do so, it may not. But that doesn't change my criticism of your answer or your reply to me.
            – magnus.orion
            1 hour ago




            It may do so, it may not. But that doesn't change my criticism of your answer or your reply to me.
            – magnus.orion
            1 hour ago












            @magnus.orion The "human element" is the physical manifestation of the individual human being. The question deals with "free-will" and "liberal democracy" as if they are mysteries, out there somewhere, dependent upon someone or something else, not the individual who is contemplating their environment and their repsonsibilities. The answer says: you are "free-will" and "liberal democracy". If "technology" would somehow subvert one's own free-will, that individual has toppled their own individuality, and their own democracy. Am aware of the tendency of humans to engage in criticism.
            – guest271314
            1 hour ago






            @magnus.orion The "human element" is the physical manifestation of the individual human being. The question deals with "free-will" and "liberal democracy" as if they are mysteries, out there somewhere, dependent upon someone or something else, not the individual who is contemplating their environment and their repsonsibilities. The answer says: you are "free-will" and "liberal democracy". If "technology" would somehow subvert one's own free-will, that individual has toppled their own individuality, and their own democracy. Am aware of the tendency of humans to engage in criticism.
            – guest271314
            1 hour ago




















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