Under what logic is the current American government shutdown “the Democrat’s fault”?












2














The President and other Republicans have been casting blame on the Democrats for being responsible for the current government shutdown.



If Republicans have a majority in the House and the Senate, and also have control over the executive branch, how could it be possible that the Democrats are responsible for the shutdown?



I’m sure there is something that I am missing (certain vote percentages, loopholes, who knows), but to me the logic seems that if Republicans had the ability to pass the funding measure and then didn’t, wouldn’t the shutdown be the Republicans fault?










share|improve this question









New contributor




T Bone is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.

























    2














    The President and other Republicans have been casting blame on the Democrats for being responsible for the current government shutdown.



    If Republicans have a majority in the House and the Senate, and also have control over the executive branch, how could it be possible that the Democrats are responsible for the shutdown?



    I’m sure there is something that I am missing (certain vote percentages, loopholes, who knows), but to me the logic seems that if Republicans had the ability to pass the funding measure and then didn’t, wouldn’t the shutdown be the Republicans fault?










    share|improve this question









    New contributor




    T Bone is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.























      2












      2








      2







      The President and other Republicans have been casting blame on the Democrats for being responsible for the current government shutdown.



      If Republicans have a majority in the House and the Senate, and also have control over the executive branch, how could it be possible that the Democrats are responsible for the shutdown?



      I’m sure there is something that I am missing (certain vote percentages, loopholes, who knows), but to me the logic seems that if Republicans had the ability to pass the funding measure and then didn’t, wouldn’t the shutdown be the Republicans fault?










      share|improve this question









      New contributor




      T Bone is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.











      The President and other Republicans have been casting blame on the Democrats for being responsible for the current government shutdown.



      If Republicans have a majority in the House and the Senate, and also have control over the executive branch, how could it be possible that the Democrats are responsible for the shutdown?



      I’m sure there is something that I am missing (certain vote percentages, loopholes, who knows), but to me the logic seems that if Republicans had the ability to pass the funding measure and then didn’t, wouldn’t the shutdown be the Republicans fault?







      united-states government-shutdown






      share|improve this question









      New contributor




      T Bone is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.











      share|improve this question









      New contributor




      T Bone is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.









      share|improve this question




      share|improve this question








      edited 52 mins ago





















      New contributor




      T Bone is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.









      asked 1 hour ago









      T Bone

      143




      143




      New contributor




      T Bone is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.





      New contributor





      T Bone is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.






      T Bone is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.






















          2 Answers
          2






          active

          oldest

          votes


















          5














          Rather than trying to address the claim of who is to blame, I will give you timeline of events and let you decide for yourself who deserves how much of the blame.



          12/19/2018:



          Senate passes with a vote of 100-0 a bi-partisan short-term spending bill without funding for Trump's wall. Bill is expected to pass the House and be signed by the President. [1]



          Fox and Friends, Rush Limbaugh, and Ann Coulter criticize Trump for "folding" on the wall. [2]



          12/20/2018:




          The president informed us that he will not sign the bill that came up from the Senate last evening because of his legitimate concerns for border security.



          -- Speaker of the House Paul Ryan (R)




          Instead of voting on the bill the Senate passed, the House with Paul Ryan (R) as Speaker passes a spending bill with $5 billion in border wall funding. Bill is not expected to pass the Senate, and ultimately does fail in the Senate, where 60 votes is needed and Republicans only had 51 seats. [3] [4]



          1/3/2018:



          The new House of Representatives with Nancy Pelosi as Speaker (Democrat) passes a bill mirroring the one that passed the Senate. Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnel (R) blocks the bill in the Senate, saying he will not bring a bill to vote without the president's approval. [5]






          share|improve this answer























          • Thanks, this is the type of answer is was hoping for. The 60% vote is specific to funding votes?
            – T Bone
            24 mins ago










          • @TBone see my answer below. "Also, almost all bills in the Senate require 60 senators to invoke "cloture" in order to end debate and vote. Bills that fail to receive cloture are "filibustered[.]""
            – Andrew
            22 mins ago



















          0















          I’m sure there is something that I am missing (certain vote percentages, loopholes, who knows), but to me the logic seems that if Republicans had the ability to pass the funding measure and then didn’t, wouldn’t the shutdown be the Republicans fault?




          I think there are a couple things: first, the new Democratic majority; and second, the filibuster/cloture process in the Senate.



          Yesterday (3 Jan.) was the first day of the 116th Congress. As of yesterday, the Democrats have a majority in the House (235 to 199, one disputed seat) and the Republicans have a majority in the Senate (53 to 47). At this point and going forward, both parties bear responsibility for passing or failing to pass spending bills.



          However, before yesterday, the Republicans had a 236 to 196 majority in the House (three vacant seats) and a 51 to 49 majority in the Senate. In December, the (Republican) House passed a spending bill with funding for the president's proposed border wall. The Senate unanimously passed an alternative short-term spending measure without border wall funding, which the president then threatened to veto. Following that, the Senate Majority Leader stated that he would not support (or presumably schedule a vote for) any bill that the president threatened to veto.



          Also, almost all bills in the Senate require 60 senators to invoke "cloture" in order to end debate and vote. Bills that fail to receive cloture are "filibustered," and given that Senate Republicans had an extremely slim majority in the last Congress, invoking cloture against a united Democratic conference was quite tough. Even in the new Congress, invoking cloture will be tricky for polarizing legislation (e.g. anything dealing with "the wall"), albeit marginally easier for the Republicans than in the last Congress.



          In my opinion, anyone who assigns blame or responsibility for the shutdown to one party exclusively is trying to spin the facts to fit a partisan or ideological narrative. How you assign blame depends on your personal beliefs, what you think about the majorities in Congress and what you think about the filibuster.






          share|improve this answer








          New contributor




          Andrew is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.


















            Your Answer








            StackExchange.ready(function() {
            var channelOptions = {
            tags: "".split(" "),
            id: "475"
            };
            initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

            StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
            // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
            if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
            StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
            createEditor();
            });
            }
            else {
            createEditor();
            }
            });

            function createEditor() {
            StackExchange.prepareEditor({
            heartbeatType: 'answer',
            autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
            convertImagesToLinks: false,
            noModals: true,
            showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
            reputationToPostImages: null,
            bindNavPrevention: true,
            postfix: "",
            imageUploader: {
            brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
            contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
            allowUrls: true
            },
            noCode: true, onDemand: true,
            discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
            ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
            });


            }
            });






            T Bone is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.










            draft saved

            draft discarded


















            StackExchange.ready(
            function () {
            StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fpolitics.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f37680%2funder-what-logic-is-the-current-american-government-shutdown-the-democrat-s-fau%23new-answer', 'question_page');
            }
            );

            Post as a guest















            Required, but never shown

























            2 Answers
            2






            active

            oldest

            votes








            2 Answers
            2






            active

            oldest

            votes









            active

            oldest

            votes






            active

            oldest

            votes









            5














            Rather than trying to address the claim of who is to blame, I will give you timeline of events and let you decide for yourself who deserves how much of the blame.



            12/19/2018:



            Senate passes with a vote of 100-0 a bi-partisan short-term spending bill without funding for Trump's wall. Bill is expected to pass the House and be signed by the President. [1]



            Fox and Friends, Rush Limbaugh, and Ann Coulter criticize Trump for "folding" on the wall. [2]



            12/20/2018:




            The president informed us that he will not sign the bill that came up from the Senate last evening because of his legitimate concerns for border security.



            -- Speaker of the House Paul Ryan (R)




            Instead of voting on the bill the Senate passed, the House with Paul Ryan (R) as Speaker passes a spending bill with $5 billion in border wall funding. Bill is not expected to pass the Senate, and ultimately does fail in the Senate, where 60 votes is needed and Republicans only had 51 seats. [3] [4]



            1/3/2018:



            The new House of Representatives with Nancy Pelosi as Speaker (Democrat) passes a bill mirroring the one that passed the Senate. Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnel (R) blocks the bill in the Senate, saying he will not bring a bill to vote without the president's approval. [5]






            share|improve this answer























            • Thanks, this is the type of answer is was hoping for. The 60% vote is specific to funding votes?
              – T Bone
              24 mins ago










            • @TBone see my answer below. "Also, almost all bills in the Senate require 60 senators to invoke "cloture" in order to end debate and vote. Bills that fail to receive cloture are "filibustered[.]""
              – Andrew
              22 mins ago
















            5














            Rather than trying to address the claim of who is to blame, I will give you timeline of events and let you decide for yourself who deserves how much of the blame.



            12/19/2018:



            Senate passes with a vote of 100-0 a bi-partisan short-term spending bill without funding for Trump's wall. Bill is expected to pass the House and be signed by the President. [1]



            Fox and Friends, Rush Limbaugh, and Ann Coulter criticize Trump for "folding" on the wall. [2]



            12/20/2018:




            The president informed us that he will not sign the bill that came up from the Senate last evening because of his legitimate concerns for border security.



            -- Speaker of the House Paul Ryan (R)




            Instead of voting on the bill the Senate passed, the House with Paul Ryan (R) as Speaker passes a spending bill with $5 billion in border wall funding. Bill is not expected to pass the Senate, and ultimately does fail in the Senate, where 60 votes is needed and Republicans only had 51 seats. [3] [4]



            1/3/2018:



            The new House of Representatives with Nancy Pelosi as Speaker (Democrat) passes a bill mirroring the one that passed the Senate. Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnel (R) blocks the bill in the Senate, saying he will not bring a bill to vote without the president's approval. [5]






            share|improve this answer























            • Thanks, this is the type of answer is was hoping for. The 60% vote is specific to funding votes?
              – T Bone
              24 mins ago










            • @TBone see my answer below. "Also, almost all bills in the Senate require 60 senators to invoke "cloture" in order to end debate and vote. Bills that fail to receive cloture are "filibustered[.]""
              – Andrew
              22 mins ago














            5












            5








            5






            Rather than trying to address the claim of who is to blame, I will give you timeline of events and let you decide for yourself who deserves how much of the blame.



            12/19/2018:



            Senate passes with a vote of 100-0 a bi-partisan short-term spending bill without funding for Trump's wall. Bill is expected to pass the House and be signed by the President. [1]



            Fox and Friends, Rush Limbaugh, and Ann Coulter criticize Trump for "folding" on the wall. [2]



            12/20/2018:




            The president informed us that he will not sign the bill that came up from the Senate last evening because of his legitimate concerns for border security.



            -- Speaker of the House Paul Ryan (R)




            Instead of voting on the bill the Senate passed, the House with Paul Ryan (R) as Speaker passes a spending bill with $5 billion in border wall funding. Bill is not expected to pass the Senate, and ultimately does fail in the Senate, where 60 votes is needed and Republicans only had 51 seats. [3] [4]



            1/3/2018:



            The new House of Representatives with Nancy Pelosi as Speaker (Democrat) passes a bill mirroring the one that passed the Senate. Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnel (R) blocks the bill in the Senate, saying he will not bring a bill to vote without the president's approval. [5]






            share|improve this answer














            Rather than trying to address the claim of who is to blame, I will give you timeline of events and let you decide for yourself who deserves how much of the blame.



            12/19/2018:



            Senate passes with a vote of 100-0 a bi-partisan short-term spending bill without funding for Trump's wall. Bill is expected to pass the House and be signed by the President. [1]



            Fox and Friends, Rush Limbaugh, and Ann Coulter criticize Trump for "folding" on the wall. [2]



            12/20/2018:




            The president informed us that he will not sign the bill that came up from the Senate last evening because of his legitimate concerns for border security.



            -- Speaker of the House Paul Ryan (R)




            Instead of voting on the bill the Senate passed, the House with Paul Ryan (R) as Speaker passes a spending bill with $5 billion in border wall funding. Bill is not expected to pass the Senate, and ultimately does fail in the Senate, where 60 votes is needed and Republicans only had 51 seats. [3] [4]



            1/3/2018:



            The new House of Representatives with Nancy Pelosi as Speaker (Democrat) passes a bill mirroring the one that passed the Senate. Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnel (R) blocks the bill in the Senate, saying he will not bring a bill to vote without the president's approval. [5]







            share|improve this answer














            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer








            edited 20 mins ago

























            answered 38 mins ago









            Alexander O'Mara

            1,92711019




            1,92711019












            • Thanks, this is the type of answer is was hoping for. The 60% vote is specific to funding votes?
              – T Bone
              24 mins ago










            • @TBone see my answer below. "Also, almost all bills in the Senate require 60 senators to invoke "cloture" in order to end debate and vote. Bills that fail to receive cloture are "filibustered[.]""
              – Andrew
              22 mins ago


















            • Thanks, this is the type of answer is was hoping for. The 60% vote is specific to funding votes?
              – T Bone
              24 mins ago










            • @TBone see my answer below. "Also, almost all bills in the Senate require 60 senators to invoke "cloture" in order to end debate and vote. Bills that fail to receive cloture are "filibustered[.]""
              – Andrew
              22 mins ago
















            Thanks, this is the type of answer is was hoping for. The 60% vote is specific to funding votes?
            – T Bone
            24 mins ago




            Thanks, this is the type of answer is was hoping for. The 60% vote is specific to funding votes?
            – T Bone
            24 mins ago












            @TBone see my answer below. "Also, almost all bills in the Senate require 60 senators to invoke "cloture" in order to end debate and vote. Bills that fail to receive cloture are "filibustered[.]""
            – Andrew
            22 mins ago




            @TBone see my answer below. "Also, almost all bills in the Senate require 60 senators to invoke "cloture" in order to end debate and vote. Bills that fail to receive cloture are "filibustered[.]""
            – Andrew
            22 mins ago











            0















            I’m sure there is something that I am missing (certain vote percentages, loopholes, who knows), but to me the logic seems that if Republicans had the ability to pass the funding measure and then didn’t, wouldn’t the shutdown be the Republicans fault?




            I think there are a couple things: first, the new Democratic majority; and second, the filibuster/cloture process in the Senate.



            Yesterday (3 Jan.) was the first day of the 116th Congress. As of yesterday, the Democrats have a majority in the House (235 to 199, one disputed seat) and the Republicans have a majority in the Senate (53 to 47). At this point and going forward, both parties bear responsibility for passing or failing to pass spending bills.



            However, before yesterday, the Republicans had a 236 to 196 majority in the House (three vacant seats) and a 51 to 49 majority in the Senate. In December, the (Republican) House passed a spending bill with funding for the president's proposed border wall. The Senate unanimously passed an alternative short-term spending measure without border wall funding, which the president then threatened to veto. Following that, the Senate Majority Leader stated that he would not support (or presumably schedule a vote for) any bill that the president threatened to veto.



            Also, almost all bills in the Senate require 60 senators to invoke "cloture" in order to end debate and vote. Bills that fail to receive cloture are "filibustered," and given that Senate Republicans had an extremely slim majority in the last Congress, invoking cloture against a united Democratic conference was quite tough. Even in the new Congress, invoking cloture will be tricky for polarizing legislation (e.g. anything dealing with "the wall"), albeit marginally easier for the Republicans than in the last Congress.



            In my opinion, anyone who assigns blame or responsibility for the shutdown to one party exclusively is trying to spin the facts to fit a partisan or ideological narrative. How you assign blame depends on your personal beliefs, what you think about the majorities in Congress and what you think about the filibuster.






            share|improve this answer








            New contributor




            Andrew is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
            Check out our Code of Conduct.























              0















              I’m sure there is something that I am missing (certain vote percentages, loopholes, who knows), but to me the logic seems that if Republicans had the ability to pass the funding measure and then didn’t, wouldn’t the shutdown be the Republicans fault?




              I think there are a couple things: first, the new Democratic majority; and second, the filibuster/cloture process in the Senate.



              Yesterday (3 Jan.) was the first day of the 116th Congress. As of yesterday, the Democrats have a majority in the House (235 to 199, one disputed seat) and the Republicans have a majority in the Senate (53 to 47). At this point and going forward, both parties bear responsibility for passing or failing to pass spending bills.



              However, before yesterday, the Republicans had a 236 to 196 majority in the House (three vacant seats) and a 51 to 49 majority in the Senate. In December, the (Republican) House passed a spending bill with funding for the president's proposed border wall. The Senate unanimously passed an alternative short-term spending measure without border wall funding, which the president then threatened to veto. Following that, the Senate Majority Leader stated that he would not support (or presumably schedule a vote for) any bill that the president threatened to veto.



              Also, almost all bills in the Senate require 60 senators to invoke "cloture" in order to end debate and vote. Bills that fail to receive cloture are "filibustered," and given that Senate Republicans had an extremely slim majority in the last Congress, invoking cloture against a united Democratic conference was quite tough. Even in the new Congress, invoking cloture will be tricky for polarizing legislation (e.g. anything dealing with "the wall"), albeit marginally easier for the Republicans than in the last Congress.



              In my opinion, anyone who assigns blame or responsibility for the shutdown to one party exclusively is trying to spin the facts to fit a partisan or ideological narrative. How you assign blame depends on your personal beliefs, what you think about the majorities in Congress and what you think about the filibuster.






              share|improve this answer








              New contributor




              Andrew is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
              Check out our Code of Conduct.





















                0












                0








                0







                I’m sure there is something that I am missing (certain vote percentages, loopholes, who knows), but to me the logic seems that if Republicans had the ability to pass the funding measure and then didn’t, wouldn’t the shutdown be the Republicans fault?




                I think there are a couple things: first, the new Democratic majority; and second, the filibuster/cloture process in the Senate.



                Yesterday (3 Jan.) was the first day of the 116th Congress. As of yesterday, the Democrats have a majority in the House (235 to 199, one disputed seat) and the Republicans have a majority in the Senate (53 to 47). At this point and going forward, both parties bear responsibility for passing or failing to pass spending bills.



                However, before yesterday, the Republicans had a 236 to 196 majority in the House (three vacant seats) and a 51 to 49 majority in the Senate. In December, the (Republican) House passed a spending bill with funding for the president's proposed border wall. The Senate unanimously passed an alternative short-term spending measure without border wall funding, which the president then threatened to veto. Following that, the Senate Majority Leader stated that he would not support (or presumably schedule a vote for) any bill that the president threatened to veto.



                Also, almost all bills in the Senate require 60 senators to invoke "cloture" in order to end debate and vote. Bills that fail to receive cloture are "filibustered," and given that Senate Republicans had an extremely slim majority in the last Congress, invoking cloture against a united Democratic conference was quite tough. Even in the new Congress, invoking cloture will be tricky for polarizing legislation (e.g. anything dealing with "the wall"), albeit marginally easier for the Republicans than in the last Congress.



                In my opinion, anyone who assigns blame or responsibility for the shutdown to one party exclusively is trying to spin the facts to fit a partisan or ideological narrative. How you assign blame depends on your personal beliefs, what you think about the majorities in Congress and what you think about the filibuster.






                share|improve this answer








                New contributor




                Andrew is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                Check out our Code of Conduct.










                I’m sure there is something that I am missing (certain vote percentages, loopholes, who knows), but to me the logic seems that if Republicans had the ability to pass the funding measure and then didn’t, wouldn’t the shutdown be the Republicans fault?




                I think there are a couple things: first, the new Democratic majority; and second, the filibuster/cloture process in the Senate.



                Yesterday (3 Jan.) was the first day of the 116th Congress. As of yesterday, the Democrats have a majority in the House (235 to 199, one disputed seat) and the Republicans have a majority in the Senate (53 to 47). At this point and going forward, both parties bear responsibility for passing or failing to pass spending bills.



                However, before yesterday, the Republicans had a 236 to 196 majority in the House (three vacant seats) and a 51 to 49 majority in the Senate. In December, the (Republican) House passed a spending bill with funding for the president's proposed border wall. The Senate unanimously passed an alternative short-term spending measure without border wall funding, which the president then threatened to veto. Following that, the Senate Majority Leader stated that he would not support (or presumably schedule a vote for) any bill that the president threatened to veto.



                Also, almost all bills in the Senate require 60 senators to invoke "cloture" in order to end debate and vote. Bills that fail to receive cloture are "filibustered," and given that Senate Republicans had an extremely slim majority in the last Congress, invoking cloture against a united Democratic conference was quite tough. Even in the new Congress, invoking cloture will be tricky for polarizing legislation (e.g. anything dealing with "the wall"), albeit marginally easier for the Republicans than in the last Congress.



                In my opinion, anyone who assigns blame or responsibility for the shutdown to one party exclusively is trying to spin the facts to fit a partisan or ideological narrative. How you assign blame depends on your personal beliefs, what you think about the majorities in Congress and what you think about the filibuster.







                share|improve this answer








                New contributor




                Andrew is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                Check out our Code of Conduct.









                share|improve this answer



                share|improve this answer






                New contributor




                Andrew is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                Check out our Code of Conduct.









                answered 27 mins ago









                Andrew

                40216




                40216




                New contributor




                Andrew is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                Check out our Code of Conduct.





                New contributor





                Andrew is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                Check out our Code of Conduct.






                Andrew is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                Check out our Code of Conduct.






















                    T Bone is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.










                    draft saved

                    draft discarded


















                    T Bone is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.













                    T Bone is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.












                    T Bone is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
















                    Thanks for contributing an answer to Politics Stack Exchange!


                    • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

                    But avoid



                    • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

                    • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.


                    To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.





                    Some of your past answers have not been well-received, and you're in danger of being blocked from answering.


                    Please pay close attention to the following guidance:


                    • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

                    But avoid



                    • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

                    • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.


                    To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




                    draft saved


                    draft discarded














                    StackExchange.ready(
                    function () {
                    StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fpolitics.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f37680%2funder-what-logic-is-the-current-american-government-shutdown-the-democrat-s-fau%23new-answer', 'question_page');
                    }
                    );

                    Post as a guest















                    Required, but never shown





















































                    Required, but never shown














                    Required, but never shown












                    Required, but never shown







                    Required, but never shown

































                    Required, but never shown














                    Required, but never shown












                    Required, but never shown







                    Required, but never shown







                    Popular posts from this blog

                    Eastern Orthodox Church

                    Zagreb

                    Understanding the information contained in the Deep Space Network XML data?