A pattern in determinants of fibonacci numbers?











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Let $F_n$ denote the $n$th Fibonacci number, adopting the convention $F_1=1$, $F_2=1$ and so on. Consider the $ntimes n$ matrix defined by



$$mathbf M_n:=begin{bmatrix}F_1&F_2&dots&F_n\F_{n+1}&F_{n+2}&dots&F_{2n}\vdots&vdots&ddots&vdots\F_{n^2-n+1}&F_{n^2-n+2}&dots&F_{n^2}end{bmatrix}.$$



I have the following conjecture:




Conjecture. For all integers $ngeq3$, $detmathbf M_n=0$.




I have used some Python code to test this conjecture for $n$ up to $9$, but I cannot go further. Note that $detmathbf M_1=detmathbf M_2=1$. Due to the elementary nature of this problem I have to assume that it has been discussed before, perhaps even on this site. But I couldn't find any reference on it, by Googling or searching here. Can someone shed light onto whether the conjecture is true, and a proof of it if so?










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    up vote
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    Let $F_n$ denote the $n$th Fibonacci number, adopting the convention $F_1=1$, $F_2=1$ and so on. Consider the $ntimes n$ matrix defined by



    $$mathbf M_n:=begin{bmatrix}F_1&F_2&dots&F_n\F_{n+1}&F_{n+2}&dots&F_{2n}\vdots&vdots&ddots&vdots\F_{n^2-n+1}&F_{n^2-n+2}&dots&F_{n^2}end{bmatrix}.$$



    I have the following conjecture:




    Conjecture. For all integers $ngeq3$, $detmathbf M_n=0$.




    I have used some Python code to test this conjecture for $n$ up to $9$, but I cannot go further. Note that $detmathbf M_1=detmathbf M_2=1$. Due to the elementary nature of this problem I have to assume that it has been discussed before, perhaps even on this site. But I couldn't find any reference on it, by Googling or searching here. Can someone shed light onto whether the conjecture is true, and a proof of it if so?










    share|cite|improve this question
























      up vote
      1
      down vote

      favorite









      up vote
      1
      down vote

      favorite











      Let $F_n$ denote the $n$th Fibonacci number, adopting the convention $F_1=1$, $F_2=1$ and so on. Consider the $ntimes n$ matrix defined by



      $$mathbf M_n:=begin{bmatrix}F_1&F_2&dots&F_n\F_{n+1}&F_{n+2}&dots&F_{2n}\vdots&vdots&ddots&vdots\F_{n^2-n+1}&F_{n^2-n+2}&dots&F_{n^2}end{bmatrix}.$$



      I have the following conjecture:




      Conjecture. For all integers $ngeq3$, $detmathbf M_n=0$.




      I have used some Python code to test this conjecture for $n$ up to $9$, but I cannot go further. Note that $detmathbf M_1=detmathbf M_2=1$. Due to the elementary nature of this problem I have to assume that it has been discussed before, perhaps even on this site. But I couldn't find any reference on it, by Googling or searching here. Can someone shed light onto whether the conjecture is true, and a proof of it if so?










      share|cite|improve this question













      Let $F_n$ denote the $n$th Fibonacci number, adopting the convention $F_1=1$, $F_2=1$ and so on. Consider the $ntimes n$ matrix defined by



      $$mathbf M_n:=begin{bmatrix}F_1&F_2&dots&F_n\F_{n+1}&F_{n+2}&dots&F_{2n}\vdots&vdots&ddots&vdots\F_{n^2-n+1}&F_{n^2-n+2}&dots&F_{n^2}end{bmatrix}.$$



      I have the following conjecture:




      Conjecture. For all integers $ngeq3$, $detmathbf M_n=0$.




      I have used some Python code to test this conjecture for $n$ up to $9$, but I cannot go further. Note that $detmathbf M_1=detmathbf M_2=1$. Due to the elementary nature of this problem I have to assume that it has been discussed before, perhaps even on this site. But I couldn't find any reference on it, by Googling or searching here. Can someone shed light onto whether the conjecture is true, and a proof of it if so?







      linear-algebra determinant fibonacci-numbers






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      asked 33 mins ago









      YiFan

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      1,6771314






















          2 Answers
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          Here's a hint: what's the relationship between $F_{k+1}+F_{k+2}$ and $F_{k+3}$? What does that say about the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd columns of this matrix?






          share|cite|improve this answer




























            up vote
            1
            down vote













            The resolution is remarkably simple (many thanks to obscurans' answer for the hint!) By the definition of the Fibonacci numbers, $F_k+F_{k+1}=F_{k+2}$ for all $k$. If $ngeq3$ then these numbers are going to be in the first three columns of every row. Hence the first three rows are linearly dependent, so the determinant is $0$. It follows from this that any such sequence following a linear recurrence (of the form $F_{n}=aF_{n-1}+bF_{n-2}$, $a,b$ are constant), with possibly different starting terms, also satisfies the stated conjecture. In fact, this shows that all such matrices have rank $2$, with the only two linearly independent columns being the first two. If the linear recurrence is of higher order, say $m$, then the determinant is $0$ when $n>m$, and the rank of the matrix will be $m$.






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            • 1




              One note: the matrix will have rank $leq$ the order of the linear recurrence, which is not necessarily 2.
              – obscurans
              17 mins ago













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            2 Answers
            2






            active

            oldest

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            2 Answers
            2






            active

            oldest

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            active

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            active

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            up vote
            4
            down vote













            Here's a hint: what's the relationship between $F_{k+1}+F_{k+2}$ and $F_{k+3}$? What does that say about the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd columns of this matrix?






            share|cite|improve this answer

























              up vote
              4
              down vote













              Here's a hint: what's the relationship between $F_{k+1}+F_{k+2}$ and $F_{k+3}$? What does that say about the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd columns of this matrix?






              share|cite|improve this answer























                up vote
                4
                down vote










                up vote
                4
                down vote









                Here's a hint: what's the relationship between $F_{k+1}+F_{k+2}$ and $F_{k+3}$? What does that say about the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd columns of this matrix?






                share|cite|improve this answer












                Here's a hint: what's the relationship between $F_{k+1}+F_{k+2}$ and $F_{k+3}$? What does that say about the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd columns of this matrix?







                share|cite|improve this answer












                share|cite|improve this answer



                share|cite|improve this answer










                answered 30 mins ago









                obscurans

                3185




                3185






















                    up vote
                    1
                    down vote













                    The resolution is remarkably simple (many thanks to obscurans' answer for the hint!) By the definition of the Fibonacci numbers, $F_k+F_{k+1}=F_{k+2}$ for all $k$. If $ngeq3$ then these numbers are going to be in the first three columns of every row. Hence the first three rows are linearly dependent, so the determinant is $0$. It follows from this that any such sequence following a linear recurrence (of the form $F_{n}=aF_{n-1}+bF_{n-2}$, $a,b$ are constant), with possibly different starting terms, also satisfies the stated conjecture. In fact, this shows that all such matrices have rank $2$, with the only two linearly independent columns being the first two. If the linear recurrence is of higher order, say $m$, then the determinant is $0$ when $n>m$, and the rank of the matrix will be $m$.






                    share|cite|improve this answer



















                    • 1




                      One note: the matrix will have rank $leq$ the order of the linear recurrence, which is not necessarily 2.
                      – obscurans
                      17 mins ago

















                    up vote
                    1
                    down vote













                    The resolution is remarkably simple (many thanks to obscurans' answer for the hint!) By the definition of the Fibonacci numbers, $F_k+F_{k+1}=F_{k+2}$ for all $k$. If $ngeq3$ then these numbers are going to be in the first three columns of every row. Hence the first three rows are linearly dependent, so the determinant is $0$. It follows from this that any such sequence following a linear recurrence (of the form $F_{n}=aF_{n-1}+bF_{n-2}$, $a,b$ are constant), with possibly different starting terms, also satisfies the stated conjecture. In fact, this shows that all such matrices have rank $2$, with the only two linearly independent columns being the first two. If the linear recurrence is of higher order, say $m$, then the determinant is $0$ when $n>m$, and the rank of the matrix will be $m$.






                    share|cite|improve this answer



















                    • 1




                      One note: the matrix will have rank $leq$ the order of the linear recurrence, which is not necessarily 2.
                      – obscurans
                      17 mins ago















                    up vote
                    1
                    down vote










                    up vote
                    1
                    down vote









                    The resolution is remarkably simple (many thanks to obscurans' answer for the hint!) By the definition of the Fibonacci numbers, $F_k+F_{k+1}=F_{k+2}$ for all $k$. If $ngeq3$ then these numbers are going to be in the first three columns of every row. Hence the first three rows are linearly dependent, so the determinant is $0$. It follows from this that any such sequence following a linear recurrence (of the form $F_{n}=aF_{n-1}+bF_{n-2}$, $a,b$ are constant), with possibly different starting terms, also satisfies the stated conjecture. In fact, this shows that all such matrices have rank $2$, with the only two linearly independent columns being the first two. If the linear recurrence is of higher order, say $m$, then the determinant is $0$ when $n>m$, and the rank of the matrix will be $m$.






                    share|cite|improve this answer














                    The resolution is remarkably simple (many thanks to obscurans' answer for the hint!) By the definition of the Fibonacci numbers, $F_k+F_{k+1}=F_{k+2}$ for all $k$. If $ngeq3$ then these numbers are going to be in the first three columns of every row. Hence the first three rows are linearly dependent, so the determinant is $0$. It follows from this that any such sequence following a linear recurrence (of the form $F_{n}=aF_{n-1}+bF_{n-2}$, $a,b$ are constant), with possibly different starting terms, also satisfies the stated conjecture. In fact, this shows that all such matrices have rank $2$, with the only two linearly independent columns being the first two. If the linear recurrence is of higher order, say $m$, then the determinant is $0$ when $n>m$, and the rank of the matrix will be $m$.







                    share|cite|improve this answer














                    share|cite|improve this answer



                    share|cite|improve this answer








                    edited 13 mins ago

























                    answered 22 mins ago









                    YiFan

                    1,6771314




                    1,6771314








                    • 1




                      One note: the matrix will have rank $leq$ the order of the linear recurrence, which is not necessarily 2.
                      – obscurans
                      17 mins ago
















                    • 1




                      One note: the matrix will have rank $leq$ the order of the linear recurrence, which is not necessarily 2.
                      – obscurans
                      17 mins ago










                    1




                    1




                    One note: the matrix will have rank $leq$ the order of the linear recurrence, which is not necessarily 2.
                    – obscurans
                    17 mins ago






                    One note: the matrix will have rank $leq$ the order of the linear recurrence, which is not necessarily 2.
                    – obscurans
                    17 mins ago




















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