Copying tapes “back in the day”
up vote
2
down vote
favorite
Back when I had a ZX Spectrum 48K, I had a friend that had a 128K and we would swap games for the weekend from time to time.
We did try and make duplicates of the tapes (yes, I know, but we were ten and had no concept of piracy). I had two of those external 5-1/4 inch-drive sized tape units (this kind of thing). I connected them up and tried to make a copy but they would bum out soon after starting. From memory they would suffer from "flutter", I think it is called, or was it wow (or both).
Strangely I seem to remember being able to make a copy of something I had written in BASIC, saved to tape, duplicated, and then had no problems loading. It may be that it was very short or my bad memory.
Out of interest, if one had access to a good hi-fi unit (I did not) could one actually make a duplicate, or did they have other protecting in place? I note there where some very sophisticated tape units available at the time (or soon after) which I understand could give CD a run for its money (e.g. the Nakamichi Dragon or the Pioneer CT-F1250).
Just for the record, I do not condone any such conduct but, for experimental and interest reasons, I wanted to ask.
cassette-tape 8-bit-microcomputers copy-protection
New contributor
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
favorite
Back when I had a ZX Spectrum 48K, I had a friend that had a 128K and we would swap games for the weekend from time to time.
We did try and make duplicates of the tapes (yes, I know, but we were ten and had no concept of piracy). I had two of those external 5-1/4 inch-drive sized tape units (this kind of thing). I connected them up and tried to make a copy but they would bum out soon after starting. From memory they would suffer from "flutter", I think it is called, or was it wow (or both).
Strangely I seem to remember being able to make a copy of something I had written in BASIC, saved to tape, duplicated, and then had no problems loading. It may be that it was very short or my bad memory.
Out of interest, if one had access to a good hi-fi unit (I did not) could one actually make a duplicate, or did they have other protecting in place? I note there where some very sophisticated tape units available at the time (or soon after) which I understand could give CD a run for its money (e.g. the Nakamichi Dragon or the Pioneer CT-F1250).
Just for the record, I do not condone any such conduct but, for experimental and interest reasons, I wanted to ask.
cassette-tape 8-bit-microcomputers copy-protection
New contributor
That "tape unit" thing is a very typical looking desktop audio recorder from the mid 70s to mid 80s time frame.
– Solomon Slow
11 mins ago
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
favorite
up vote
2
down vote
favorite
Back when I had a ZX Spectrum 48K, I had a friend that had a 128K and we would swap games for the weekend from time to time.
We did try and make duplicates of the tapes (yes, I know, but we were ten and had no concept of piracy). I had two of those external 5-1/4 inch-drive sized tape units (this kind of thing). I connected them up and tried to make a copy but they would bum out soon after starting. From memory they would suffer from "flutter", I think it is called, or was it wow (or both).
Strangely I seem to remember being able to make a copy of something I had written in BASIC, saved to tape, duplicated, and then had no problems loading. It may be that it was very short or my bad memory.
Out of interest, if one had access to a good hi-fi unit (I did not) could one actually make a duplicate, or did they have other protecting in place? I note there where some very sophisticated tape units available at the time (or soon after) which I understand could give CD a run for its money (e.g. the Nakamichi Dragon or the Pioneer CT-F1250).
Just for the record, I do not condone any such conduct but, for experimental and interest reasons, I wanted to ask.
cassette-tape 8-bit-microcomputers copy-protection
New contributor
Back when I had a ZX Spectrum 48K, I had a friend that had a 128K and we would swap games for the weekend from time to time.
We did try and make duplicates of the tapes (yes, I know, but we were ten and had no concept of piracy). I had two of those external 5-1/4 inch-drive sized tape units (this kind of thing). I connected them up and tried to make a copy but they would bum out soon after starting. From memory they would suffer from "flutter", I think it is called, or was it wow (or both).
Strangely I seem to remember being able to make a copy of something I had written in BASIC, saved to tape, duplicated, and then had no problems loading. It may be that it was very short or my bad memory.
Out of interest, if one had access to a good hi-fi unit (I did not) could one actually make a duplicate, or did they have other protecting in place? I note there where some very sophisticated tape units available at the time (or soon after) which I understand could give CD a run for its money (e.g. the Nakamichi Dragon or the Pioneer CT-F1250).
Just for the record, I do not condone any such conduct but, for experimental and interest reasons, I wanted to ask.
cassette-tape 8-bit-microcomputers copy-protection
cassette-tape 8-bit-microcomputers copy-protection
New contributor
New contributor
edited 1 hour ago
Raffzahn
43.4k599175
43.4k599175
New contributor
asked 4 hours ago
Recycled Steel
1111
1111
New contributor
New contributor
That "tape unit" thing is a very typical looking desktop audio recorder from the mid 70s to mid 80s time frame.
– Solomon Slow
11 mins ago
add a comment |
That "tape unit" thing is a very typical looking desktop audio recorder from the mid 70s to mid 80s time frame.
– Solomon Slow
11 mins ago
That "tape unit" thing is a very typical looking desktop audio recorder from the mid 70s to mid 80s time frame.
– Solomon Slow
11 mins ago
That "tape unit" thing is a very typical looking desktop audio recorder from the mid 70s to mid 80s time frame.
– Solomon Slow
11 mins ago
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
up vote
1
down vote
It's now well publicized how people used to record programs for their machines, from their radio, which were transmitted by radio-stations .
So maybe you could have played the program on an audio-speaker, and then used the microphone on a cassette-recorder to copy the tape.
That may have bypassed the flutter problem .
What about the volume level when you tried copying, it's an issue for people today, when playing these old tapes to their modern-hardware for emulators etc, or is it vice versa.
Maybe games from shops were stored in a finer-detail-format( or machine-code ? ) to prevent copying, don't know .
I know of noone who recorded such programs from any speaker. Everyone I ever met, recording these (it was quite popular in the Netherlands, but as well used in Germany) from radio or TV did always use a cable conection between receiver and recorder.
– Raffzahn
3 hours ago
Yes, a cable should be used, not a speaker, and volume-level should be the key . When I would look at normal-cassette-tapes playing, I noticed they intermittently made little jumps/shifts while rotating the tape, surprised that programs were not affected. Also noise/static on radio-stations and phone-lines, maybe this was usually not a problem .
– typingcomputers
2 hours ago
It may be some countries transmitted programs over the airwave, I haven'y heard of that myself. I had the good fortune to grow up in a house with a fairly decent dual-cassette system - just put in the original and copy, press a few buttons, and go. And, of course, this was just to backup my originals for security.
– paxdiablo
1 hour ago
" I noticed they intermittently made little jumps/shifts while rotating the tape," - that isn't important. The tape speed is set by a capstan rotating against a pinch wheel, with the tape in between. When playing (as opposed to rewinding) there is just a small current through the motor turning one of the tape reels, to take up the slack. The tape reels don't affect the playing speed, unless something isn't working properly.
– alephzero
1 hour ago
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
No, you won't need any 'HiFi' like recorders. After all, these were the very same devices you also used to record your own programs and/or data. While copying from recorder to recorder does always carry a loss in quality, this is of no big influence on a first or second degree copy (*1).
The most important factor is volume. It's much the same as when recording and re-reading data. If the level during recording is too high (*2), reading may not work. Just about every computer manual back than included a paragraph or more to explain level setting and how to find the right level during playback.
This is even more important when using just the recorder as level and sensitivity on both sides are an unknown quantity (*3). The output of the source recorder now has to be adjusted that the cassette is played back at a level which, in conjunction with the input sensitivity of the other recorder, places it somewhere in the middle of the road.
So all needed is spending some time adjusting both recorders.
Now, having said this, there are of course ways to improve the signal, and people did spend money to buy such, to make sure copying went well (*4), but for most cases it was waste of money.
P.S.: The drive shown has nothing to do with any PC standard, like 5.25 inch drive bays or alike. It's just an average cassette recorder, like they were ubiquitous back then.
*1 - As in numbers of consecutive copies.
*2 - Or too low, but that's rarely the reason.
*3 - When recording from the computer, the level is (usually) set well within the defined working range for tape recorders. Only when reading back is adjustment needed. Usually, this is done by turning a litle dial next to the ear/line-out plugs.
*4 - Of course, only for archiving purpose, never to duplicate cassette-based software for resale :))
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
1
down vote
It's now well publicized how people used to record programs for their machines, from their radio, which were transmitted by radio-stations .
So maybe you could have played the program on an audio-speaker, and then used the microphone on a cassette-recorder to copy the tape.
That may have bypassed the flutter problem .
What about the volume level when you tried copying, it's an issue for people today, when playing these old tapes to their modern-hardware for emulators etc, or is it vice versa.
Maybe games from shops were stored in a finer-detail-format( or machine-code ? ) to prevent copying, don't know .
I know of noone who recorded such programs from any speaker. Everyone I ever met, recording these (it was quite popular in the Netherlands, but as well used in Germany) from radio or TV did always use a cable conection between receiver and recorder.
– Raffzahn
3 hours ago
Yes, a cable should be used, not a speaker, and volume-level should be the key . When I would look at normal-cassette-tapes playing, I noticed they intermittently made little jumps/shifts while rotating the tape, surprised that programs were not affected. Also noise/static on radio-stations and phone-lines, maybe this was usually not a problem .
– typingcomputers
2 hours ago
It may be some countries transmitted programs over the airwave, I haven'y heard of that myself. I had the good fortune to grow up in a house with a fairly decent dual-cassette system - just put in the original and copy, press a few buttons, and go. And, of course, this was just to backup my originals for security.
– paxdiablo
1 hour ago
" I noticed they intermittently made little jumps/shifts while rotating the tape," - that isn't important. The tape speed is set by a capstan rotating against a pinch wheel, with the tape in between. When playing (as opposed to rewinding) there is just a small current through the motor turning one of the tape reels, to take up the slack. The tape reels don't affect the playing speed, unless something isn't working properly.
– alephzero
1 hour ago
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
It's now well publicized how people used to record programs for their machines, from their radio, which were transmitted by radio-stations .
So maybe you could have played the program on an audio-speaker, and then used the microphone on a cassette-recorder to copy the tape.
That may have bypassed the flutter problem .
What about the volume level when you tried copying, it's an issue for people today, when playing these old tapes to their modern-hardware for emulators etc, or is it vice versa.
Maybe games from shops were stored in a finer-detail-format( or machine-code ? ) to prevent copying, don't know .
I know of noone who recorded such programs from any speaker. Everyone I ever met, recording these (it was quite popular in the Netherlands, but as well used in Germany) from radio or TV did always use a cable conection between receiver and recorder.
– Raffzahn
3 hours ago
Yes, a cable should be used, not a speaker, and volume-level should be the key . When I would look at normal-cassette-tapes playing, I noticed they intermittently made little jumps/shifts while rotating the tape, surprised that programs were not affected. Also noise/static on radio-stations and phone-lines, maybe this was usually not a problem .
– typingcomputers
2 hours ago
It may be some countries transmitted programs over the airwave, I haven'y heard of that myself. I had the good fortune to grow up in a house with a fairly decent dual-cassette system - just put in the original and copy, press a few buttons, and go. And, of course, this was just to backup my originals for security.
– paxdiablo
1 hour ago
" I noticed they intermittently made little jumps/shifts while rotating the tape," - that isn't important. The tape speed is set by a capstan rotating against a pinch wheel, with the tape in between. When playing (as opposed to rewinding) there is just a small current through the motor turning one of the tape reels, to take up the slack. The tape reels don't affect the playing speed, unless something isn't working properly.
– alephzero
1 hour ago
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
It's now well publicized how people used to record programs for their machines, from their radio, which were transmitted by radio-stations .
So maybe you could have played the program on an audio-speaker, and then used the microphone on a cassette-recorder to copy the tape.
That may have bypassed the flutter problem .
What about the volume level when you tried copying, it's an issue for people today, when playing these old tapes to their modern-hardware for emulators etc, or is it vice versa.
Maybe games from shops were stored in a finer-detail-format( or machine-code ? ) to prevent copying, don't know .
It's now well publicized how people used to record programs for their machines, from their radio, which were transmitted by radio-stations .
So maybe you could have played the program on an audio-speaker, and then used the microphone on a cassette-recorder to copy the tape.
That may have bypassed the flutter problem .
What about the volume level when you tried copying, it's an issue for people today, when playing these old tapes to their modern-hardware for emulators etc, or is it vice versa.
Maybe games from shops were stored in a finer-detail-format( or machine-code ? ) to prevent copying, don't know .
answered 3 hours ago
typingcomputers
374
374
I know of noone who recorded such programs from any speaker. Everyone I ever met, recording these (it was quite popular in the Netherlands, but as well used in Germany) from radio or TV did always use a cable conection between receiver and recorder.
– Raffzahn
3 hours ago
Yes, a cable should be used, not a speaker, and volume-level should be the key . When I would look at normal-cassette-tapes playing, I noticed they intermittently made little jumps/shifts while rotating the tape, surprised that programs were not affected. Also noise/static on radio-stations and phone-lines, maybe this was usually not a problem .
– typingcomputers
2 hours ago
It may be some countries transmitted programs over the airwave, I haven'y heard of that myself. I had the good fortune to grow up in a house with a fairly decent dual-cassette system - just put in the original and copy, press a few buttons, and go. And, of course, this was just to backup my originals for security.
– paxdiablo
1 hour ago
" I noticed they intermittently made little jumps/shifts while rotating the tape," - that isn't important. The tape speed is set by a capstan rotating against a pinch wheel, with the tape in between. When playing (as opposed to rewinding) there is just a small current through the motor turning one of the tape reels, to take up the slack. The tape reels don't affect the playing speed, unless something isn't working properly.
– alephzero
1 hour ago
add a comment |
I know of noone who recorded such programs from any speaker. Everyone I ever met, recording these (it was quite popular in the Netherlands, but as well used in Germany) from radio or TV did always use a cable conection between receiver and recorder.
– Raffzahn
3 hours ago
Yes, a cable should be used, not a speaker, and volume-level should be the key . When I would look at normal-cassette-tapes playing, I noticed they intermittently made little jumps/shifts while rotating the tape, surprised that programs were not affected. Also noise/static on radio-stations and phone-lines, maybe this was usually not a problem .
– typingcomputers
2 hours ago
It may be some countries transmitted programs over the airwave, I haven'y heard of that myself. I had the good fortune to grow up in a house with a fairly decent dual-cassette system - just put in the original and copy, press a few buttons, and go. And, of course, this was just to backup my originals for security.
– paxdiablo
1 hour ago
" I noticed they intermittently made little jumps/shifts while rotating the tape," - that isn't important. The tape speed is set by a capstan rotating against a pinch wheel, with the tape in between. When playing (as opposed to rewinding) there is just a small current through the motor turning one of the tape reels, to take up the slack. The tape reels don't affect the playing speed, unless something isn't working properly.
– alephzero
1 hour ago
I know of noone who recorded such programs from any speaker. Everyone I ever met, recording these (it was quite popular in the Netherlands, but as well used in Germany) from radio or TV did always use a cable conection between receiver and recorder.
– Raffzahn
3 hours ago
I know of noone who recorded such programs from any speaker. Everyone I ever met, recording these (it was quite popular in the Netherlands, but as well used in Germany) from radio or TV did always use a cable conection between receiver and recorder.
– Raffzahn
3 hours ago
Yes, a cable should be used, not a speaker, and volume-level should be the key . When I would look at normal-cassette-tapes playing, I noticed they intermittently made little jumps/shifts while rotating the tape, surprised that programs were not affected. Also noise/static on radio-stations and phone-lines, maybe this was usually not a problem .
– typingcomputers
2 hours ago
Yes, a cable should be used, not a speaker, and volume-level should be the key . When I would look at normal-cassette-tapes playing, I noticed they intermittently made little jumps/shifts while rotating the tape, surprised that programs were not affected. Also noise/static on radio-stations and phone-lines, maybe this was usually not a problem .
– typingcomputers
2 hours ago
It may be some countries transmitted programs over the airwave, I haven'y heard of that myself. I had the good fortune to grow up in a house with a fairly decent dual-cassette system - just put in the original and copy, press a few buttons, and go. And, of course, this was just to backup my originals for security.
– paxdiablo
1 hour ago
It may be some countries transmitted programs over the airwave, I haven'y heard of that myself. I had the good fortune to grow up in a house with a fairly decent dual-cassette system - just put in the original and copy, press a few buttons, and go. And, of course, this was just to backup my originals for security.
– paxdiablo
1 hour ago
" I noticed they intermittently made little jumps/shifts while rotating the tape," - that isn't important. The tape speed is set by a capstan rotating against a pinch wheel, with the tape in between. When playing (as opposed to rewinding) there is just a small current through the motor turning one of the tape reels, to take up the slack. The tape reels don't affect the playing speed, unless something isn't working properly.
– alephzero
1 hour ago
" I noticed they intermittently made little jumps/shifts while rotating the tape," - that isn't important. The tape speed is set by a capstan rotating against a pinch wheel, with the tape in between. When playing (as opposed to rewinding) there is just a small current through the motor turning one of the tape reels, to take up the slack. The tape reels don't affect the playing speed, unless something isn't working properly.
– alephzero
1 hour ago
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
No, you won't need any 'HiFi' like recorders. After all, these were the very same devices you also used to record your own programs and/or data. While copying from recorder to recorder does always carry a loss in quality, this is of no big influence on a first or second degree copy (*1).
The most important factor is volume. It's much the same as when recording and re-reading data. If the level during recording is too high (*2), reading may not work. Just about every computer manual back than included a paragraph or more to explain level setting and how to find the right level during playback.
This is even more important when using just the recorder as level and sensitivity on both sides are an unknown quantity (*3). The output of the source recorder now has to be adjusted that the cassette is played back at a level which, in conjunction with the input sensitivity of the other recorder, places it somewhere in the middle of the road.
So all needed is spending some time adjusting both recorders.
Now, having said this, there are of course ways to improve the signal, and people did spend money to buy such, to make sure copying went well (*4), but for most cases it was waste of money.
P.S.: The drive shown has nothing to do with any PC standard, like 5.25 inch drive bays or alike. It's just an average cassette recorder, like they were ubiquitous back then.
*1 - As in numbers of consecutive copies.
*2 - Or too low, but that's rarely the reason.
*3 - When recording from the computer, the level is (usually) set well within the defined working range for tape recorders. Only when reading back is adjustment needed. Usually, this is done by turning a litle dial next to the ear/line-out plugs.
*4 - Of course, only for archiving purpose, never to duplicate cassette-based software for resale :))
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
No, you won't need any 'HiFi' like recorders. After all, these were the very same devices you also used to record your own programs and/or data. While copying from recorder to recorder does always carry a loss in quality, this is of no big influence on a first or second degree copy (*1).
The most important factor is volume. It's much the same as when recording and re-reading data. If the level during recording is too high (*2), reading may not work. Just about every computer manual back than included a paragraph or more to explain level setting and how to find the right level during playback.
This is even more important when using just the recorder as level and sensitivity on both sides are an unknown quantity (*3). The output of the source recorder now has to be adjusted that the cassette is played back at a level which, in conjunction with the input sensitivity of the other recorder, places it somewhere in the middle of the road.
So all needed is spending some time adjusting both recorders.
Now, having said this, there are of course ways to improve the signal, and people did spend money to buy such, to make sure copying went well (*4), but for most cases it was waste of money.
P.S.: The drive shown has nothing to do with any PC standard, like 5.25 inch drive bays or alike. It's just an average cassette recorder, like they were ubiquitous back then.
*1 - As in numbers of consecutive copies.
*2 - Or too low, but that's rarely the reason.
*3 - When recording from the computer, the level is (usually) set well within the defined working range for tape recorders. Only when reading back is adjustment needed. Usually, this is done by turning a litle dial next to the ear/line-out plugs.
*4 - Of course, only for archiving purpose, never to duplicate cassette-based software for resale :))
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
No, you won't need any 'HiFi' like recorders. After all, these were the very same devices you also used to record your own programs and/or data. While copying from recorder to recorder does always carry a loss in quality, this is of no big influence on a first or second degree copy (*1).
The most important factor is volume. It's much the same as when recording and re-reading data. If the level during recording is too high (*2), reading may not work. Just about every computer manual back than included a paragraph or more to explain level setting and how to find the right level during playback.
This is even more important when using just the recorder as level and sensitivity on both sides are an unknown quantity (*3). The output of the source recorder now has to be adjusted that the cassette is played back at a level which, in conjunction with the input sensitivity of the other recorder, places it somewhere in the middle of the road.
So all needed is spending some time adjusting both recorders.
Now, having said this, there are of course ways to improve the signal, and people did spend money to buy such, to make sure copying went well (*4), but for most cases it was waste of money.
P.S.: The drive shown has nothing to do with any PC standard, like 5.25 inch drive bays or alike. It's just an average cassette recorder, like they were ubiquitous back then.
*1 - As in numbers of consecutive copies.
*2 - Or too low, but that's rarely the reason.
*3 - When recording from the computer, the level is (usually) set well within the defined working range for tape recorders. Only when reading back is adjustment needed. Usually, this is done by turning a litle dial next to the ear/line-out plugs.
*4 - Of course, only for archiving purpose, never to duplicate cassette-based software for resale :))
No, you won't need any 'HiFi' like recorders. After all, these were the very same devices you also used to record your own programs and/or data. While copying from recorder to recorder does always carry a loss in quality, this is of no big influence on a first or second degree copy (*1).
The most important factor is volume. It's much the same as when recording and re-reading data. If the level during recording is too high (*2), reading may not work. Just about every computer manual back than included a paragraph or more to explain level setting and how to find the right level during playback.
This is even more important when using just the recorder as level and sensitivity on both sides are an unknown quantity (*3). The output of the source recorder now has to be adjusted that the cassette is played back at a level which, in conjunction with the input sensitivity of the other recorder, places it somewhere in the middle of the road.
So all needed is spending some time adjusting both recorders.
Now, having said this, there are of course ways to improve the signal, and people did spend money to buy such, to make sure copying went well (*4), but for most cases it was waste of money.
P.S.: The drive shown has nothing to do with any PC standard, like 5.25 inch drive bays or alike. It's just an average cassette recorder, like they were ubiquitous back then.
*1 - As in numbers of consecutive copies.
*2 - Or too low, but that's rarely the reason.
*3 - When recording from the computer, the level is (usually) set well within the defined working range for tape recorders. Only when reading back is adjustment needed. Usually, this is done by turning a litle dial next to the ear/line-out plugs.
*4 - Of course, only for archiving purpose, never to duplicate cassette-based software for resale :))
edited 1 hour ago
answered 3 hours ago
Raffzahn
43.4k599175
43.4k599175
add a comment |
add a comment |
Recycled Steel is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Recycled Steel is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
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That "tape unit" thing is a very typical looking desktop audio recorder from the mid 70s to mid 80s time frame.
– Solomon Slow
11 mins ago