Why does shooting a handgun accelerate a bullet to deadly speed without injuring the gun user's hand?
Momentum is defined by the product of mass and velocity. Now a projectile out of a gun has to have high velocity to penetrate a human body, as its mass isn't significant. But to reach this velocity, due to inertia/the law of energy conservation, momentum on both sides is to be equal. As there is strong negative acceleration in the opposite direction of the bullet, it should result in a strong force in the opposite direction of the bullet ($F = m*a $).
Therefore I wonder why shooting a bullet with a handgun is not ripping your hand apart.
newtonian-mechanics momentum conservation-laws collision estimation
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Momentum is defined by the product of mass and velocity. Now a projectile out of a gun has to have high velocity to penetrate a human body, as its mass isn't significant. But to reach this velocity, due to inertia/the law of energy conservation, momentum on both sides is to be equal. As there is strong negative acceleration in the opposite direction of the bullet, it should result in a strong force in the opposite direction of the bullet ($F = m*a $).
Therefore I wonder why shooting a bullet with a handgun is not ripping your hand apart.
newtonian-mechanics momentum conservation-laws collision estimation
Comments are not for extended discussion; this interesting conversation has been moved to chat. Please use comments only to suggest improvements to the question or request clarification from the asker.
– rob♦
12 hours ago
add a comment |
Momentum is defined by the product of mass and velocity. Now a projectile out of a gun has to have high velocity to penetrate a human body, as its mass isn't significant. But to reach this velocity, due to inertia/the law of energy conservation, momentum on both sides is to be equal. As there is strong negative acceleration in the opposite direction of the bullet, it should result in a strong force in the opposite direction of the bullet ($F = m*a $).
Therefore I wonder why shooting a bullet with a handgun is not ripping your hand apart.
newtonian-mechanics momentum conservation-laws collision estimation
Momentum is defined by the product of mass and velocity. Now a projectile out of a gun has to have high velocity to penetrate a human body, as its mass isn't significant. But to reach this velocity, due to inertia/the law of energy conservation, momentum on both sides is to be equal. As there is strong negative acceleration in the opposite direction of the bullet, it should result in a strong force in the opposite direction of the bullet ($F = m*a $).
Therefore I wonder why shooting a bullet with a handgun is not ripping your hand apart.
newtonian-mechanics momentum conservation-laws collision estimation
newtonian-mechanics momentum conservation-laws collision estimation
edited 5 hours ago
asked 2 days ago
Zurechtweiser
22525
22525
Comments are not for extended discussion; this interesting conversation has been moved to chat. Please use comments only to suggest improvements to the question or request clarification from the asker.
– rob♦
12 hours ago
add a comment |
Comments are not for extended discussion; this interesting conversation has been moved to chat. Please use comments only to suggest improvements to the question or request clarification from the asker.
– rob♦
12 hours ago
Comments are not for extended discussion; this interesting conversation has been moved to chat. Please use comments only to suggest improvements to the question or request clarification from the asker.
– rob♦
12 hours ago
Comments are not for extended discussion; this interesting conversation has been moved to chat. Please use comments only to suggest improvements to the question or request clarification from the asker.
– rob♦
12 hours ago
add a comment |
6 Answers
6
active
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Firstly, some guns do give quite a kick! So the effect you are thinking of is real.
However, conservation of momentum means that $m_text{bullet} cdot v_text{bullet} = m_text{gun} cdot v_text{gun}$. So the bullet's velocity is greater than that of the gun by a ratio of $frac{m_text{gun}}{m_text{bullet}}$. Then energy is distributed in the same ratio because while energy scales as velocity squared, it also scales with the mass. So, it is useful for the gun to be heavy and/or for it to have a spring-loaded mechanism to slowly distribute the kick to your hand and body.
New contributor
11
Spot on about the mass of the gun. by the way, the spring loaded mechanism that dampens recoil is typically the action of a semi-automatic of automatic firearm. The purpose of that action isn't to dampen recoil, but rather to eject the spent cartridge and chamber the next cartridge. However, in using recoil energy to reload the weapon, it does indeed dampen recoil. However, there is a mechanism on firearms that is specifically designed to dampen recoil: The muzzle brake, which directs some of the propellant gasses backwards and thereby counters some of the force of recoil.
– Wayne Conrad
2 days ago
2
@Blue - Yeah, after it overcomes the inertia of the gun and other losses due to distortions. It will still apply the same overall force to the weapon which is what then, if designed right, correctly transfers the energy to your body mercifully, instead of you ending up pointing it at your forehead after every discharge.
– Mazura
yesterday
2
@BlueRaja-DannyPflughoeft: The weight of the weapon plays a huge part.
– whatsisname
yesterday
3
@Yakk - "It may soak up energy, but it cannot soak up momentum." It doesn't need to. By extending the recoil absorption over a longer distance, and therefor longer time, it reduces the peak recoil force on the shooter, and that is an important part of perceived recoil.
– WhatRoughBeast
yesterday
1
@WayneConrad is correct, although I'd like to add the effect of the recoil spring in most short recoil operation handguns is huge on felt recoil. Many race shooters tune their recoil springs, and if done correctly and to the user's preference, can almost completely eliminate felt recoil. Many people use custom aftermarket guide rods and recoil springs for this purpose. They are often rated by poundage, and are tuned to reduce the amount of recoil transferred to the action to just the amount needed to cycle it, and nothing more transferred to the user.
– nostalgk
15 hours ago
|
show 9 more comments
The handgun is braced with a large surface area of the hand, and the palm and entire hand are robust; the result is that the hand, or hand and arm, or hand and upper body are sharply displaced as a whole before the motion is damped by the rest of the body.
Some details of recoil are discussed here. The recoil of rifles, which are generally more powerful, braced near the shoulder, and operated near the face, can easily cause a broken collarbone, torn rotator cuff, black eye, and/or detached retina.
Thus, whether injury occurs depends on the stress induced in vivo from the acceleration of the brace position vs. the relative strength of the nearby organs.
The hand (and wrist, forearm, &c) also has many flexible muscles and joints, which act as shock absorbers. Not just when firing a pistol: think of hitting something with your fist.
– jamesqf
2 days ago
15
If the gun weighed as much (very important) as the projectile, and was as small (also important), it would. We have an ancient Styre rifle that was shortened at some point, vastly reducing it's weight. Its recoil went from being described as 'unpleasant' to 'grim'.
– Mazura
2 days ago
3
The mass of the firearm also plays a significant role.
– whatsisname
yesterday
add a comment |
Therefore I wonder why shooting a bullet with a handgun is not ripping your hand apart.
Because the mass of the handgun is greater than the mass of the bullet, and because the energy transferred from the gun to your hand is distributed across the surface of the pistol grip.
One of the more interesting things I heard on a trip to Williamsburg Virginia (which is period of ~1776; American Revolution) was the question of how much the muskets weighed. The historical figure answered (I don't recall the weight) and the questioner said in a surprised voice, "That's basically the same that guns weigh today!"
"Yes," replied this historical figure, "because the physics hasn't changed. They could make rifles lighter today, but they don't because the recoil would be worse."
There are other things put in modern pistols to reduce recoil like springs and discharge, but since you tagged it "Newtonian physics" I expect your are less interested in those things.
New contributor
2
This answer covers it best. If you had a 'bullet trap' of the same weight as the gun, which decelerated the bullet over an equally long trajectory as it was fired, catching a bullet using this device would be no harder than firing it. Catching a bullet with just the mass of skin in front of it, over the thickness of said skin, generally doesn't work for anything but bb's.
– Eelco Hoogendoorn
2 days ago
I did not tag it with Newtonian physics, only with momentum.
– Zurechtweiser
yesterday
1
@EelcoHoogendoorn a bulletproof vest is one example of "bullet trap"
– Eric Duminil
yesterday
1
Re "They could make rifles lighter today...", they do. Compare the weight of an M14 to the M16, for instance. Or for pistols, the .45 caliber Colt M1911 weighs 1100 g, the comparable Glock .45 845 g. (Other Glock models weigh even less.)
– jamesqf
yesterday
@Zurechtweiser Sorry, that's what I saw and assumed you did it.
– J. Chris Compton
yesterday
|
show 4 more comments
By holding the gun firmly and taking a proper firing pose, you arrange it so that the momentum is passed to your entire body as a whole, or a large enough part of it. Your body is much heavier than the bullet, so the speed it gets from the shot is very small and easily countered by muscles and joints.
If you don't take a proper pose or don't hold the gun properly, you may fail to steady it against the kickback, or the momentum could be passed only to a small part of the body, resulting in injury.
add a comment |
Lets nail down some figures with a random choice of compatible equipment with specs publicly available.
Gun https://us.glock.com/products/G19
Gun Weight with empty magazine 670 g | 23.63 oz
Barrel Length 102 mm | 4.02 inch (slightly less than ammo test, so time under acceleration is slightly less)
Ammunition https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9%C3%9719mm_Parabellum
Bullet mass 8.04 g (124 gr) Federal FMJ
Bullet velocity 1,150 ft/s (350 m/s) @ 118mm (4.65") barrel length, 0.00067s
Bullet energy 364 ft⋅lbf (494 J)
We could set this up as a conservation of energy problem, and that would be a reasonable approximation with a satisfying answer.
The time under acceleration is very short(0.00067s). (anything less than 0.01s feels instantaneous)
The gun weighs a lot (83 times) more than the bullet.
It is coupled to a human that weighs very much more.(180lb = 10155 times)
It is coupled over a large, soft, energy absorbing surface(hand).
The recoil is transmitted through several relatively massive energy absorbing tendons, tensed muscles, bones, flexed joints, fat, fluids, which redirect the recoil into countless vectors.
Where is the point of impact between gun and bullet? How does the gun impart force to the bullet and the bullet impart equal and opposite force to the gun? Well that doesn't really happen. It isn't a collision.
Only the timing is similar to a collision because both gun and bullet are accelerated in opposite directions by expanding gasses with same T0.
But is energy imparted equally? The center of those gasses is itself being accelerated away from the gun. Barrel friction counteracts recoil. You may be mistaken in part of your premise "momentum on both sides is to be equal".
gasses -> gases
– Faheem Mitha
yesterday
1
@FaheemMitha In British English, and possibly all others except US English (where it is no longer the common variation), gasses is correct.
– Andrew Morton
yesterday
@AndrewMorton Wow, I don't think I've come across that variant before. Or if I have, I don't remember it.
– Faheem Mitha
yesterday
How much the human weights is quite irrelevant: When the bullet leaves the gun, the gun has moved back by $102mm/83 = 1.2mm$ and is moving at a speed of $350frac{m}{s}/83 = 4.2frac{m}{s} = 15frac{km}{h}$. The gun subsequently basically crashes into the human at that speed: The tiny translation of $1.2mm$ is simply not enough to transmit any relevant forces.
– cmaster
yesterday
That said, if you half the weight of the gun, you get it crashing into the user at twice the speed, i.e. $30frac{km}{h}$, which is definitely not fun.
– cmaster
yesterday
|
show 1 more comment
Assuming impulse invariance, roughly the same amount of momentum is transferred to the shooter and the bullet and ultimately the target. However, if momentum was the only lethal element of a bullet, there would not be such a thing as a bullet-proof vest since a bullet-proof vest cannot keep momentum off the target (you'd need a ground-mounted shield for that). It can, however, absorb and disperse energy which, as opposed to momentum, grows with the square of the speed of moving mass. A bullet will often not transfer all of its energy to the target unless it gets stuck and will rather work by inflicting deadly injury, but there are some that are designed to stop and/or disperse on entry, like hollow point bullets. Those tend to be much more deadly than an ordinary bullet even when not hitting vital parts of the body.
So the basic point is that a pistol has more mass than the bullet, so while they share momentum equally (at least when discounting what exhaust fumes may do), they don't receive equal amounts of energy.
Note that shoulder-held rocket launchers are built in a way where the exhaust fumes (which continue accelerating the rocket via conservation of momentum) can leave the launcher at its back, thus minimizing the amount of momentum transferred to the operator (naturally, the place behind someone with a rocket launcher is a very bad place to be as opposed to being behind a gunner). Since it is the pressure of the propellant explosion rather than the momentum of something leaving the bullet, this kind of mechanism is not feasible with a gun to a good degree.
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6 Answers
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6 Answers
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Firstly, some guns do give quite a kick! So the effect you are thinking of is real.
However, conservation of momentum means that $m_text{bullet} cdot v_text{bullet} = m_text{gun} cdot v_text{gun}$. So the bullet's velocity is greater than that of the gun by a ratio of $frac{m_text{gun}}{m_text{bullet}}$. Then energy is distributed in the same ratio because while energy scales as velocity squared, it also scales with the mass. So, it is useful for the gun to be heavy and/or for it to have a spring-loaded mechanism to slowly distribute the kick to your hand and body.
New contributor
11
Spot on about the mass of the gun. by the way, the spring loaded mechanism that dampens recoil is typically the action of a semi-automatic of automatic firearm. The purpose of that action isn't to dampen recoil, but rather to eject the spent cartridge and chamber the next cartridge. However, in using recoil energy to reload the weapon, it does indeed dampen recoil. However, there is a mechanism on firearms that is specifically designed to dampen recoil: The muzzle brake, which directs some of the propellant gasses backwards and thereby counters some of the force of recoil.
– Wayne Conrad
2 days ago
2
@Blue - Yeah, after it overcomes the inertia of the gun and other losses due to distortions. It will still apply the same overall force to the weapon which is what then, if designed right, correctly transfers the energy to your body mercifully, instead of you ending up pointing it at your forehead after every discharge.
– Mazura
yesterday
2
@BlueRaja-DannyPflughoeft: The weight of the weapon plays a huge part.
– whatsisname
yesterday
3
@Yakk - "It may soak up energy, but it cannot soak up momentum." It doesn't need to. By extending the recoil absorption over a longer distance, and therefor longer time, it reduces the peak recoil force on the shooter, and that is an important part of perceived recoil.
– WhatRoughBeast
yesterday
1
@WayneConrad is correct, although I'd like to add the effect of the recoil spring in most short recoil operation handguns is huge on felt recoil. Many race shooters tune their recoil springs, and if done correctly and to the user's preference, can almost completely eliminate felt recoil. Many people use custom aftermarket guide rods and recoil springs for this purpose. They are often rated by poundage, and are tuned to reduce the amount of recoil transferred to the action to just the amount needed to cycle it, and nothing more transferred to the user.
– nostalgk
15 hours ago
|
show 9 more comments
Firstly, some guns do give quite a kick! So the effect you are thinking of is real.
However, conservation of momentum means that $m_text{bullet} cdot v_text{bullet} = m_text{gun} cdot v_text{gun}$. So the bullet's velocity is greater than that of the gun by a ratio of $frac{m_text{gun}}{m_text{bullet}}$. Then energy is distributed in the same ratio because while energy scales as velocity squared, it also scales with the mass. So, it is useful for the gun to be heavy and/or for it to have a spring-loaded mechanism to slowly distribute the kick to your hand and body.
New contributor
11
Spot on about the mass of the gun. by the way, the spring loaded mechanism that dampens recoil is typically the action of a semi-automatic of automatic firearm. The purpose of that action isn't to dampen recoil, but rather to eject the spent cartridge and chamber the next cartridge. However, in using recoil energy to reload the weapon, it does indeed dampen recoil. However, there is a mechanism on firearms that is specifically designed to dampen recoil: The muzzle brake, which directs some of the propellant gasses backwards and thereby counters some of the force of recoil.
– Wayne Conrad
2 days ago
2
@Blue - Yeah, after it overcomes the inertia of the gun and other losses due to distortions. It will still apply the same overall force to the weapon which is what then, if designed right, correctly transfers the energy to your body mercifully, instead of you ending up pointing it at your forehead after every discharge.
– Mazura
yesterday
2
@BlueRaja-DannyPflughoeft: The weight of the weapon plays a huge part.
– whatsisname
yesterday
3
@Yakk - "It may soak up energy, but it cannot soak up momentum." It doesn't need to. By extending the recoil absorption over a longer distance, and therefor longer time, it reduces the peak recoil force on the shooter, and that is an important part of perceived recoil.
– WhatRoughBeast
yesterday
1
@WayneConrad is correct, although I'd like to add the effect of the recoil spring in most short recoil operation handguns is huge on felt recoil. Many race shooters tune their recoil springs, and if done correctly and to the user's preference, can almost completely eliminate felt recoil. Many people use custom aftermarket guide rods and recoil springs for this purpose. They are often rated by poundage, and are tuned to reduce the amount of recoil transferred to the action to just the amount needed to cycle it, and nothing more transferred to the user.
– nostalgk
15 hours ago
|
show 9 more comments
Firstly, some guns do give quite a kick! So the effect you are thinking of is real.
However, conservation of momentum means that $m_text{bullet} cdot v_text{bullet} = m_text{gun} cdot v_text{gun}$. So the bullet's velocity is greater than that of the gun by a ratio of $frac{m_text{gun}}{m_text{bullet}}$. Then energy is distributed in the same ratio because while energy scales as velocity squared, it also scales with the mass. So, it is useful for the gun to be heavy and/or for it to have a spring-loaded mechanism to slowly distribute the kick to your hand and body.
New contributor
Firstly, some guns do give quite a kick! So the effect you are thinking of is real.
However, conservation of momentum means that $m_text{bullet} cdot v_text{bullet} = m_text{gun} cdot v_text{gun}$. So the bullet's velocity is greater than that of the gun by a ratio of $frac{m_text{gun}}{m_text{bullet}}$. Then energy is distributed in the same ratio because while energy scales as velocity squared, it also scales with the mass. So, it is useful for the gun to be heavy and/or for it to have a spring-loaded mechanism to slowly distribute the kick to your hand and body.
New contributor
edited yesterday
Wasserwaage
255216
255216
New contributor
answered 2 days ago
Paul Young
47415
47415
New contributor
New contributor
11
Spot on about the mass of the gun. by the way, the spring loaded mechanism that dampens recoil is typically the action of a semi-automatic of automatic firearm. The purpose of that action isn't to dampen recoil, but rather to eject the spent cartridge and chamber the next cartridge. However, in using recoil energy to reload the weapon, it does indeed dampen recoil. However, there is a mechanism on firearms that is specifically designed to dampen recoil: The muzzle brake, which directs some of the propellant gasses backwards and thereby counters some of the force of recoil.
– Wayne Conrad
2 days ago
2
@Blue - Yeah, after it overcomes the inertia of the gun and other losses due to distortions. It will still apply the same overall force to the weapon which is what then, if designed right, correctly transfers the energy to your body mercifully, instead of you ending up pointing it at your forehead after every discharge.
– Mazura
yesterday
2
@BlueRaja-DannyPflughoeft: The weight of the weapon plays a huge part.
– whatsisname
yesterday
3
@Yakk - "It may soak up energy, but it cannot soak up momentum." It doesn't need to. By extending the recoil absorption over a longer distance, and therefor longer time, it reduces the peak recoil force on the shooter, and that is an important part of perceived recoil.
– WhatRoughBeast
yesterday
1
@WayneConrad is correct, although I'd like to add the effect of the recoil spring in most short recoil operation handguns is huge on felt recoil. Many race shooters tune their recoil springs, and if done correctly and to the user's preference, can almost completely eliminate felt recoil. Many people use custom aftermarket guide rods and recoil springs for this purpose. They are often rated by poundage, and are tuned to reduce the amount of recoil transferred to the action to just the amount needed to cycle it, and nothing more transferred to the user.
– nostalgk
15 hours ago
|
show 9 more comments
11
Spot on about the mass of the gun. by the way, the spring loaded mechanism that dampens recoil is typically the action of a semi-automatic of automatic firearm. The purpose of that action isn't to dampen recoil, but rather to eject the spent cartridge and chamber the next cartridge. However, in using recoil energy to reload the weapon, it does indeed dampen recoil. However, there is a mechanism on firearms that is specifically designed to dampen recoil: The muzzle brake, which directs some of the propellant gasses backwards and thereby counters some of the force of recoil.
– Wayne Conrad
2 days ago
2
@Blue - Yeah, after it overcomes the inertia of the gun and other losses due to distortions. It will still apply the same overall force to the weapon which is what then, if designed right, correctly transfers the energy to your body mercifully, instead of you ending up pointing it at your forehead after every discharge.
– Mazura
yesterday
2
@BlueRaja-DannyPflughoeft: The weight of the weapon plays a huge part.
– whatsisname
yesterday
3
@Yakk - "It may soak up energy, but it cannot soak up momentum." It doesn't need to. By extending the recoil absorption over a longer distance, and therefor longer time, it reduces the peak recoil force on the shooter, and that is an important part of perceived recoil.
– WhatRoughBeast
yesterday
1
@WayneConrad is correct, although I'd like to add the effect of the recoil spring in most short recoil operation handguns is huge on felt recoil. Many race shooters tune their recoil springs, and if done correctly and to the user's preference, can almost completely eliminate felt recoil. Many people use custom aftermarket guide rods and recoil springs for this purpose. They are often rated by poundage, and are tuned to reduce the amount of recoil transferred to the action to just the amount needed to cycle it, and nothing more transferred to the user.
– nostalgk
15 hours ago
11
11
Spot on about the mass of the gun. by the way, the spring loaded mechanism that dampens recoil is typically the action of a semi-automatic of automatic firearm. The purpose of that action isn't to dampen recoil, but rather to eject the spent cartridge and chamber the next cartridge. However, in using recoil energy to reload the weapon, it does indeed dampen recoil. However, there is a mechanism on firearms that is specifically designed to dampen recoil: The muzzle brake, which directs some of the propellant gasses backwards and thereby counters some of the force of recoil.
– Wayne Conrad
2 days ago
Spot on about the mass of the gun. by the way, the spring loaded mechanism that dampens recoil is typically the action of a semi-automatic of automatic firearm. The purpose of that action isn't to dampen recoil, but rather to eject the spent cartridge and chamber the next cartridge. However, in using recoil energy to reload the weapon, it does indeed dampen recoil. However, there is a mechanism on firearms that is specifically designed to dampen recoil: The muzzle brake, which directs some of the propellant gasses backwards and thereby counters some of the force of recoil.
– Wayne Conrad
2 days ago
2
2
@Blue - Yeah, after it overcomes the inertia of the gun and other losses due to distortions. It will still apply the same overall force to the weapon which is what then, if designed right, correctly transfers the energy to your body mercifully, instead of you ending up pointing it at your forehead after every discharge.
– Mazura
yesterday
@Blue - Yeah, after it overcomes the inertia of the gun and other losses due to distortions. It will still apply the same overall force to the weapon which is what then, if designed right, correctly transfers the energy to your body mercifully, instead of you ending up pointing it at your forehead after every discharge.
– Mazura
yesterday
2
2
@BlueRaja-DannyPflughoeft: The weight of the weapon plays a huge part.
– whatsisname
yesterday
@BlueRaja-DannyPflughoeft: The weight of the weapon plays a huge part.
– whatsisname
yesterday
3
3
@Yakk - "It may soak up energy, but it cannot soak up momentum." It doesn't need to. By extending the recoil absorption over a longer distance, and therefor longer time, it reduces the peak recoil force on the shooter, and that is an important part of perceived recoil.
– WhatRoughBeast
yesterday
@Yakk - "It may soak up energy, but it cannot soak up momentum." It doesn't need to. By extending the recoil absorption over a longer distance, and therefor longer time, it reduces the peak recoil force on the shooter, and that is an important part of perceived recoil.
– WhatRoughBeast
yesterday
1
1
@WayneConrad is correct, although I'd like to add the effect of the recoil spring in most short recoil operation handguns is huge on felt recoil. Many race shooters tune their recoil springs, and if done correctly and to the user's preference, can almost completely eliminate felt recoil. Many people use custom aftermarket guide rods and recoil springs for this purpose. They are often rated by poundage, and are tuned to reduce the amount of recoil transferred to the action to just the amount needed to cycle it, and nothing more transferred to the user.
– nostalgk
15 hours ago
@WayneConrad is correct, although I'd like to add the effect of the recoil spring in most short recoil operation handguns is huge on felt recoil. Many race shooters tune their recoil springs, and if done correctly and to the user's preference, can almost completely eliminate felt recoil. Many people use custom aftermarket guide rods and recoil springs for this purpose. They are often rated by poundage, and are tuned to reduce the amount of recoil transferred to the action to just the amount needed to cycle it, and nothing more transferred to the user.
– nostalgk
15 hours ago
|
show 9 more comments
The handgun is braced with a large surface area of the hand, and the palm and entire hand are robust; the result is that the hand, or hand and arm, or hand and upper body are sharply displaced as a whole before the motion is damped by the rest of the body.
Some details of recoil are discussed here. The recoil of rifles, which are generally more powerful, braced near the shoulder, and operated near the face, can easily cause a broken collarbone, torn rotator cuff, black eye, and/or detached retina.
Thus, whether injury occurs depends on the stress induced in vivo from the acceleration of the brace position vs. the relative strength of the nearby organs.
The hand (and wrist, forearm, &c) also has many flexible muscles and joints, which act as shock absorbers. Not just when firing a pistol: think of hitting something with your fist.
– jamesqf
2 days ago
15
If the gun weighed as much (very important) as the projectile, and was as small (also important), it would. We have an ancient Styre rifle that was shortened at some point, vastly reducing it's weight. Its recoil went from being described as 'unpleasant' to 'grim'.
– Mazura
2 days ago
3
The mass of the firearm also plays a significant role.
– whatsisname
yesterday
add a comment |
The handgun is braced with a large surface area of the hand, and the palm and entire hand are robust; the result is that the hand, or hand and arm, or hand and upper body are sharply displaced as a whole before the motion is damped by the rest of the body.
Some details of recoil are discussed here. The recoil of rifles, which are generally more powerful, braced near the shoulder, and operated near the face, can easily cause a broken collarbone, torn rotator cuff, black eye, and/or detached retina.
Thus, whether injury occurs depends on the stress induced in vivo from the acceleration of the brace position vs. the relative strength of the nearby organs.
The hand (and wrist, forearm, &c) also has many flexible muscles and joints, which act as shock absorbers. Not just when firing a pistol: think of hitting something with your fist.
– jamesqf
2 days ago
15
If the gun weighed as much (very important) as the projectile, and was as small (also important), it would. We have an ancient Styre rifle that was shortened at some point, vastly reducing it's weight. Its recoil went from being described as 'unpleasant' to 'grim'.
– Mazura
2 days ago
3
The mass of the firearm also plays a significant role.
– whatsisname
yesterday
add a comment |
The handgun is braced with a large surface area of the hand, and the palm and entire hand are robust; the result is that the hand, or hand and arm, or hand and upper body are sharply displaced as a whole before the motion is damped by the rest of the body.
Some details of recoil are discussed here. The recoil of rifles, which are generally more powerful, braced near the shoulder, and operated near the face, can easily cause a broken collarbone, torn rotator cuff, black eye, and/or detached retina.
Thus, whether injury occurs depends on the stress induced in vivo from the acceleration of the brace position vs. the relative strength of the nearby organs.
The handgun is braced with a large surface area of the hand, and the palm and entire hand are robust; the result is that the hand, or hand and arm, or hand and upper body are sharply displaced as a whole before the motion is damped by the rest of the body.
Some details of recoil are discussed here. The recoil of rifles, which are generally more powerful, braced near the shoulder, and operated near the face, can easily cause a broken collarbone, torn rotator cuff, black eye, and/or detached retina.
Thus, whether injury occurs depends on the stress induced in vivo from the acceleration of the brace position vs. the relative strength of the nearby organs.
answered 2 days ago
Chemomechanics
4,59831023
4,59831023
The hand (and wrist, forearm, &c) also has many flexible muscles and joints, which act as shock absorbers. Not just when firing a pistol: think of hitting something with your fist.
– jamesqf
2 days ago
15
If the gun weighed as much (very important) as the projectile, and was as small (also important), it would. We have an ancient Styre rifle that was shortened at some point, vastly reducing it's weight. Its recoil went from being described as 'unpleasant' to 'grim'.
– Mazura
2 days ago
3
The mass of the firearm also plays a significant role.
– whatsisname
yesterday
add a comment |
The hand (and wrist, forearm, &c) also has many flexible muscles and joints, which act as shock absorbers. Not just when firing a pistol: think of hitting something with your fist.
– jamesqf
2 days ago
15
If the gun weighed as much (very important) as the projectile, and was as small (also important), it would. We have an ancient Styre rifle that was shortened at some point, vastly reducing it's weight. Its recoil went from being described as 'unpleasant' to 'grim'.
– Mazura
2 days ago
3
The mass of the firearm also plays a significant role.
– whatsisname
yesterday
The hand (and wrist, forearm, &c) also has many flexible muscles and joints, which act as shock absorbers. Not just when firing a pistol: think of hitting something with your fist.
– jamesqf
2 days ago
The hand (and wrist, forearm, &c) also has many flexible muscles and joints, which act as shock absorbers. Not just when firing a pistol: think of hitting something with your fist.
– jamesqf
2 days ago
15
15
If the gun weighed as much (very important) as the projectile, and was as small (also important), it would. We have an ancient Styre rifle that was shortened at some point, vastly reducing it's weight. Its recoil went from being described as 'unpleasant' to 'grim'.
– Mazura
2 days ago
If the gun weighed as much (very important) as the projectile, and was as small (also important), it would. We have an ancient Styre rifle that was shortened at some point, vastly reducing it's weight. Its recoil went from being described as 'unpleasant' to 'grim'.
– Mazura
2 days ago
3
3
The mass of the firearm also plays a significant role.
– whatsisname
yesterday
The mass of the firearm also plays a significant role.
– whatsisname
yesterday
add a comment |
Therefore I wonder why shooting a bullet with a handgun is not ripping your hand apart.
Because the mass of the handgun is greater than the mass of the bullet, and because the energy transferred from the gun to your hand is distributed across the surface of the pistol grip.
One of the more interesting things I heard on a trip to Williamsburg Virginia (which is period of ~1776; American Revolution) was the question of how much the muskets weighed. The historical figure answered (I don't recall the weight) and the questioner said in a surprised voice, "That's basically the same that guns weigh today!"
"Yes," replied this historical figure, "because the physics hasn't changed. They could make rifles lighter today, but they don't because the recoil would be worse."
There are other things put in modern pistols to reduce recoil like springs and discharge, but since you tagged it "Newtonian physics" I expect your are less interested in those things.
New contributor
2
This answer covers it best. If you had a 'bullet trap' of the same weight as the gun, which decelerated the bullet over an equally long trajectory as it was fired, catching a bullet using this device would be no harder than firing it. Catching a bullet with just the mass of skin in front of it, over the thickness of said skin, generally doesn't work for anything but bb's.
– Eelco Hoogendoorn
2 days ago
I did not tag it with Newtonian physics, only with momentum.
– Zurechtweiser
yesterday
1
@EelcoHoogendoorn a bulletproof vest is one example of "bullet trap"
– Eric Duminil
yesterday
1
Re "They could make rifles lighter today...", they do. Compare the weight of an M14 to the M16, for instance. Or for pistols, the .45 caliber Colt M1911 weighs 1100 g, the comparable Glock .45 845 g. (Other Glock models weigh even less.)
– jamesqf
yesterday
@Zurechtweiser Sorry, that's what I saw and assumed you did it.
– J. Chris Compton
yesterday
|
show 4 more comments
Therefore I wonder why shooting a bullet with a handgun is not ripping your hand apart.
Because the mass of the handgun is greater than the mass of the bullet, and because the energy transferred from the gun to your hand is distributed across the surface of the pistol grip.
One of the more interesting things I heard on a trip to Williamsburg Virginia (which is period of ~1776; American Revolution) was the question of how much the muskets weighed. The historical figure answered (I don't recall the weight) and the questioner said in a surprised voice, "That's basically the same that guns weigh today!"
"Yes," replied this historical figure, "because the physics hasn't changed. They could make rifles lighter today, but they don't because the recoil would be worse."
There are other things put in modern pistols to reduce recoil like springs and discharge, but since you tagged it "Newtonian physics" I expect your are less interested in those things.
New contributor
2
This answer covers it best. If you had a 'bullet trap' of the same weight as the gun, which decelerated the bullet over an equally long trajectory as it was fired, catching a bullet using this device would be no harder than firing it. Catching a bullet with just the mass of skin in front of it, over the thickness of said skin, generally doesn't work for anything but bb's.
– Eelco Hoogendoorn
2 days ago
I did not tag it with Newtonian physics, only with momentum.
– Zurechtweiser
yesterday
1
@EelcoHoogendoorn a bulletproof vest is one example of "bullet trap"
– Eric Duminil
yesterday
1
Re "They could make rifles lighter today...", they do. Compare the weight of an M14 to the M16, for instance. Or for pistols, the .45 caliber Colt M1911 weighs 1100 g, the comparable Glock .45 845 g. (Other Glock models weigh even less.)
– jamesqf
yesterday
@Zurechtweiser Sorry, that's what I saw and assumed you did it.
– J. Chris Compton
yesterday
|
show 4 more comments
Therefore I wonder why shooting a bullet with a handgun is not ripping your hand apart.
Because the mass of the handgun is greater than the mass of the bullet, and because the energy transferred from the gun to your hand is distributed across the surface of the pistol grip.
One of the more interesting things I heard on a trip to Williamsburg Virginia (which is period of ~1776; American Revolution) was the question of how much the muskets weighed. The historical figure answered (I don't recall the weight) and the questioner said in a surprised voice, "That's basically the same that guns weigh today!"
"Yes," replied this historical figure, "because the physics hasn't changed. They could make rifles lighter today, but they don't because the recoil would be worse."
There are other things put in modern pistols to reduce recoil like springs and discharge, but since you tagged it "Newtonian physics" I expect your are less interested in those things.
New contributor
Therefore I wonder why shooting a bullet with a handgun is not ripping your hand apart.
Because the mass of the handgun is greater than the mass of the bullet, and because the energy transferred from the gun to your hand is distributed across the surface of the pistol grip.
One of the more interesting things I heard on a trip to Williamsburg Virginia (which is period of ~1776; American Revolution) was the question of how much the muskets weighed. The historical figure answered (I don't recall the weight) and the questioner said in a surprised voice, "That's basically the same that guns weigh today!"
"Yes," replied this historical figure, "because the physics hasn't changed. They could make rifles lighter today, but they don't because the recoil would be worse."
There are other things put in modern pistols to reduce recoil like springs and discharge, but since you tagged it "Newtonian physics" I expect your are less interested in those things.
New contributor
New contributor
answered 2 days ago
J. Chris Compton
32114
32114
New contributor
New contributor
2
This answer covers it best. If you had a 'bullet trap' of the same weight as the gun, which decelerated the bullet over an equally long trajectory as it was fired, catching a bullet using this device would be no harder than firing it. Catching a bullet with just the mass of skin in front of it, over the thickness of said skin, generally doesn't work for anything but bb's.
– Eelco Hoogendoorn
2 days ago
I did not tag it with Newtonian physics, only with momentum.
– Zurechtweiser
yesterday
1
@EelcoHoogendoorn a bulletproof vest is one example of "bullet trap"
– Eric Duminil
yesterday
1
Re "They could make rifles lighter today...", they do. Compare the weight of an M14 to the M16, for instance. Or for pistols, the .45 caliber Colt M1911 weighs 1100 g, the comparable Glock .45 845 g. (Other Glock models weigh even less.)
– jamesqf
yesterday
@Zurechtweiser Sorry, that's what I saw and assumed you did it.
– J. Chris Compton
yesterday
|
show 4 more comments
2
This answer covers it best. If you had a 'bullet trap' of the same weight as the gun, which decelerated the bullet over an equally long trajectory as it was fired, catching a bullet using this device would be no harder than firing it. Catching a bullet with just the mass of skin in front of it, over the thickness of said skin, generally doesn't work for anything but bb's.
– Eelco Hoogendoorn
2 days ago
I did not tag it with Newtonian physics, only with momentum.
– Zurechtweiser
yesterday
1
@EelcoHoogendoorn a bulletproof vest is one example of "bullet trap"
– Eric Duminil
yesterday
1
Re "They could make rifles lighter today...", they do. Compare the weight of an M14 to the M16, for instance. Or for pistols, the .45 caliber Colt M1911 weighs 1100 g, the comparable Glock .45 845 g. (Other Glock models weigh even less.)
– jamesqf
yesterday
@Zurechtweiser Sorry, that's what I saw and assumed you did it.
– J. Chris Compton
yesterday
2
2
This answer covers it best. If you had a 'bullet trap' of the same weight as the gun, which decelerated the bullet over an equally long trajectory as it was fired, catching a bullet using this device would be no harder than firing it. Catching a bullet with just the mass of skin in front of it, over the thickness of said skin, generally doesn't work for anything but bb's.
– Eelco Hoogendoorn
2 days ago
This answer covers it best. If you had a 'bullet trap' of the same weight as the gun, which decelerated the bullet over an equally long trajectory as it was fired, catching a bullet using this device would be no harder than firing it. Catching a bullet with just the mass of skin in front of it, over the thickness of said skin, generally doesn't work for anything but bb's.
– Eelco Hoogendoorn
2 days ago
I did not tag it with Newtonian physics, only with momentum.
– Zurechtweiser
yesterday
I did not tag it with Newtonian physics, only with momentum.
– Zurechtweiser
yesterday
1
1
@EelcoHoogendoorn a bulletproof vest is one example of "bullet trap"
– Eric Duminil
yesterday
@EelcoHoogendoorn a bulletproof vest is one example of "bullet trap"
– Eric Duminil
yesterday
1
1
Re "They could make rifles lighter today...", they do. Compare the weight of an M14 to the M16, for instance. Or for pistols, the .45 caliber Colt M1911 weighs 1100 g, the comparable Glock .45 845 g. (Other Glock models weigh even less.)
– jamesqf
yesterday
Re "They could make rifles lighter today...", they do. Compare the weight of an M14 to the M16, for instance. Or for pistols, the .45 caliber Colt M1911 weighs 1100 g, the comparable Glock .45 845 g. (Other Glock models weigh even less.)
– jamesqf
yesterday
@Zurechtweiser Sorry, that's what I saw and assumed you did it.
– J. Chris Compton
yesterday
@Zurechtweiser Sorry, that's what I saw and assumed you did it.
– J. Chris Compton
yesterday
|
show 4 more comments
By holding the gun firmly and taking a proper firing pose, you arrange it so that the momentum is passed to your entire body as a whole, or a large enough part of it. Your body is much heavier than the bullet, so the speed it gets from the shot is very small and easily countered by muscles and joints.
If you don't take a proper pose or don't hold the gun properly, you may fail to steady it against the kickback, or the momentum could be passed only to a small part of the body, resulting in injury.
add a comment |
By holding the gun firmly and taking a proper firing pose, you arrange it so that the momentum is passed to your entire body as a whole, or a large enough part of it. Your body is much heavier than the bullet, so the speed it gets from the shot is very small and easily countered by muscles and joints.
If you don't take a proper pose or don't hold the gun properly, you may fail to steady it against the kickback, or the momentum could be passed only to a small part of the body, resulting in injury.
add a comment |
By holding the gun firmly and taking a proper firing pose, you arrange it so that the momentum is passed to your entire body as a whole, or a large enough part of it. Your body is much heavier than the bullet, so the speed it gets from the shot is very small and easily countered by muscles and joints.
If you don't take a proper pose or don't hold the gun properly, you may fail to steady it against the kickback, or the momentum could be passed only to a small part of the body, resulting in injury.
By holding the gun firmly and taking a proper firing pose, you arrange it so that the momentum is passed to your entire body as a whole, or a large enough part of it. Your body is much heavier than the bullet, so the speed it gets from the shot is very small and easily countered by muscles and joints.
If you don't take a proper pose or don't hold the gun properly, you may fail to steady it against the kickback, or the momentum could be passed only to a small part of the body, resulting in injury.
answered 15 hours ago
ivan_pozdeev
1974
1974
add a comment |
add a comment |
Lets nail down some figures with a random choice of compatible equipment with specs publicly available.
Gun https://us.glock.com/products/G19
Gun Weight with empty magazine 670 g | 23.63 oz
Barrel Length 102 mm | 4.02 inch (slightly less than ammo test, so time under acceleration is slightly less)
Ammunition https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9%C3%9719mm_Parabellum
Bullet mass 8.04 g (124 gr) Federal FMJ
Bullet velocity 1,150 ft/s (350 m/s) @ 118mm (4.65") barrel length, 0.00067s
Bullet energy 364 ft⋅lbf (494 J)
We could set this up as a conservation of energy problem, and that would be a reasonable approximation with a satisfying answer.
The time under acceleration is very short(0.00067s). (anything less than 0.01s feels instantaneous)
The gun weighs a lot (83 times) more than the bullet.
It is coupled to a human that weighs very much more.(180lb = 10155 times)
It is coupled over a large, soft, energy absorbing surface(hand).
The recoil is transmitted through several relatively massive energy absorbing tendons, tensed muscles, bones, flexed joints, fat, fluids, which redirect the recoil into countless vectors.
Where is the point of impact between gun and bullet? How does the gun impart force to the bullet and the bullet impart equal and opposite force to the gun? Well that doesn't really happen. It isn't a collision.
Only the timing is similar to a collision because both gun and bullet are accelerated in opposite directions by expanding gasses with same T0.
But is energy imparted equally? The center of those gasses is itself being accelerated away from the gun. Barrel friction counteracts recoil. You may be mistaken in part of your premise "momentum on both sides is to be equal".
gasses -> gases
– Faheem Mitha
yesterday
1
@FaheemMitha In British English, and possibly all others except US English (where it is no longer the common variation), gasses is correct.
– Andrew Morton
yesterday
@AndrewMorton Wow, I don't think I've come across that variant before. Or if I have, I don't remember it.
– Faheem Mitha
yesterday
How much the human weights is quite irrelevant: When the bullet leaves the gun, the gun has moved back by $102mm/83 = 1.2mm$ and is moving at a speed of $350frac{m}{s}/83 = 4.2frac{m}{s} = 15frac{km}{h}$. The gun subsequently basically crashes into the human at that speed: The tiny translation of $1.2mm$ is simply not enough to transmit any relevant forces.
– cmaster
yesterday
That said, if you half the weight of the gun, you get it crashing into the user at twice the speed, i.e. $30frac{km}{h}$, which is definitely not fun.
– cmaster
yesterday
|
show 1 more comment
Lets nail down some figures with a random choice of compatible equipment with specs publicly available.
Gun https://us.glock.com/products/G19
Gun Weight with empty magazine 670 g | 23.63 oz
Barrel Length 102 mm | 4.02 inch (slightly less than ammo test, so time under acceleration is slightly less)
Ammunition https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9%C3%9719mm_Parabellum
Bullet mass 8.04 g (124 gr) Federal FMJ
Bullet velocity 1,150 ft/s (350 m/s) @ 118mm (4.65") barrel length, 0.00067s
Bullet energy 364 ft⋅lbf (494 J)
We could set this up as a conservation of energy problem, and that would be a reasonable approximation with a satisfying answer.
The time under acceleration is very short(0.00067s). (anything less than 0.01s feels instantaneous)
The gun weighs a lot (83 times) more than the bullet.
It is coupled to a human that weighs very much more.(180lb = 10155 times)
It is coupled over a large, soft, energy absorbing surface(hand).
The recoil is transmitted through several relatively massive energy absorbing tendons, tensed muscles, bones, flexed joints, fat, fluids, which redirect the recoil into countless vectors.
Where is the point of impact between gun and bullet? How does the gun impart force to the bullet and the bullet impart equal and opposite force to the gun? Well that doesn't really happen. It isn't a collision.
Only the timing is similar to a collision because both gun and bullet are accelerated in opposite directions by expanding gasses with same T0.
But is energy imparted equally? The center of those gasses is itself being accelerated away from the gun. Barrel friction counteracts recoil. You may be mistaken in part of your premise "momentum on both sides is to be equal".
gasses -> gases
– Faheem Mitha
yesterday
1
@FaheemMitha In British English, and possibly all others except US English (where it is no longer the common variation), gasses is correct.
– Andrew Morton
yesterday
@AndrewMorton Wow, I don't think I've come across that variant before. Or if I have, I don't remember it.
– Faheem Mitha
yesterday
How much the human weights is quite irrelevant: When the bullet leaves the gun, the gun has moved back by $102mm/83 = 1.2mm$ and is moving at a speed of $350frac{m}{s}/83 = 4.2frac{m}{s} = 15frac{km}{h}$. The gun subsequently basically crashes into the human at that speed: The tiny translation of $1.2mm$ is simply not enough to transmit any relevant forces.
– cmaster
yesterday
That said, if you half the weight of the gun, you get it crashing into the user at twice the speed, i.e. $30frac{km}{h}$, which is definitely not fun.
– cmaster
yesterday
|
show 1 more comment
Lets nail down some figures with a random choice of compatible equipment with specs publicly available.
Gun https://us.glock.com/products/G19
Gun Weight with empty magazine 670 g | 23.63 oz
Barrel Length 102 mm | 4.02 inch (slightly less than ammo test, so time under acceleration is slightly less)
Ammunition https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9%C3%9719mm_Parabellum
Bullet mass 8.04 g (124 gr) Federal FMJ
Bullet velocity 1,150 ft/s (350 m/s) @ 118mm (4.65") barrel length, 0.00067s
Bullet energy 364 ft⋅lbf (494 J)
We could set this up as a conservation of energy problem, and that would be a reasonable approximation with a satisfying answer.
The time under acceleration is very short(0.00067s). (anything less than 0.01s feels instantaneous)
The gun weighs a lot (83 times) more than the bullet.
It is coupled to a human that weighs very much more.(180lb = 10155 times)
It is coupled over a large, soft, energy absorbing surface(hand).
The recoil is transmitted through several relatively massive energy absorbing tendons, tensed muscles, bones, flexed joints, fat, fluids, which redirect the recoil into countless vectors.
Where is the point of impact between gun and bullet? How does the gun impart force to the bullet and the bullet impart equal and opposite force to the gun? Well that doesn't really happen. It isn't a collision.
Only the timing is similar to a collision because both gun and bullet are accelerated in opposite directions by expanding gasses with same T0.
But is energy imparted equally? The center of those gasses is itself being accelerated away from the gun. Barrel friction counteracts recoil. You may be mistaken in part of your premise "momentum on both sides is to be equal".
Lets nail down some figures with a random choice of compatible equipment with specs publicly available.
Gun https://us.glock.com/products/G19
Gun Weight with empty magazine 670 g | 23.63 oz
Barrel Length 102 mm | 4.02 inch (slightly less than ammo test, so time under acceleration is slightly less)
Ammunition https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9%C3%9719mm_Parabellum
Bullet mass 8.04 g (124 gr) Federal FMJ
Bullet velocity 1,150 ft/s (350 m/s) @ 118mm (4.65") barrel length, 0.00067s
Bullet energy 364 ft⋅lbf (494 J)
We could set this up as a conservation of energy problem, and that would be a reasonable approximation with a satisfying answer.
The time under acceleration is very short(0.00067s). (anything less than 0.01s feels instantaneous)
The gun weighs a lot (83 times) more than the bullet.
It is coupled to a human that weighs very much more.(180lb = 10155 times)
It is coupled over a large, soft, energy absorbing surface(hand).
The recoil is transmitted through several relatively massive energy absorbing tendons, tensed muscles, bones, flexed joints, fat, fluids, which redirect the recoil into countless vectors.
Where is the point of impact between gun and bullet? How does the gun impart force to the bullet and the bullet impart equal and opposite force to the gun? Well that doesn't really happen. It isn't a collision.
Only the timing is similar to a collision because both gun and bullet are accelerated in opposite directions by expanding gasses with same T0.
But is energy imparted equally? The center of those gasses is itself being accelerated away from the gun. Barrel friction counteracts recoil. You may be mistaken in part of your premise "momentum on both sides is to be equal".
edited 2 days ago
answered 2 days ago
slomobile
413
413
gasses -> gases
– Faheem Mitha
yesterday
1
@FaheemMitha In British English, and possibly all others except US English (where it is no longer the common variation), gasses is correct.
– Andrew Morton
yesterday
@AndrewMorton Wow, I don't think I've come across that variant before. Or if I have, I don't remember it.
– Faheem Mitha
yesterday
How much the human weights is quite irrelevant: When the bullet leaves the gun, the gun has moved back by $102mm/83 = 1.2mm$ and is moving at a speed of $350frac{m}{s}/83 = 4.2frac{m}{s} = 15frac{km}{h}$. The gun subsequently basically crashes into the human at that speed: The tiny translation of $1.2mm$ is simply not enough to transmit any relevant forces.
– cmaster
yesterday
That said, if you half the weight of the gun, you get it crashing into the user at twice the speed, i.e. $30frac{km}{h}$, which is definitely not fun.
– cmaster
yesterday
|
show 1 more comment
gasses -> gases
– Faheem Mitha
yesterday
1
@FaheemMitha In British English, and possibly all others except US English (where it is no longer the common variation), gasses is correct.
– Andrew Morton
yesterday
@AndrewMorton Wow, I don't think I've come across that variant before. Or if I have, I don't remember it.
– Faheem Mitha
yesterday
How much the human weights is quite irrelevant: When the bullet leaves the gun, the gun has moved back by $102mm/83 = 1.2mm$ and is moving at a speed of $350frac{m}{s}/83 = 4.2frac{m}{s} = 15frac{km}{h}$. The gun subsequently basically crashes into the human at that speed: The tiny translation of $1.2mm$ is simply not enough to transmit any relevant forces.
– cmaster
yesterday
That said, if you half the weight of the gun, you get it crashing into the user at twice the speed, i.e. $30frac{km}{h}$, which is definitely not fun.
– cmaster
yesterday
gasses -> gases
– Faheem Mitha
yesterday
gasses -> gases
– Faheem Mitha
yesterday
1
1
@FaheemMitha In British English, and possibly all others except US English (where it is no longer the common variation), gasses is correct.
– Andrew Morton
yesterday
@FaheemMitha In British English, and possibly all others except US English (where it is no longer the common variation), gasses is correct.
– Andrew Morton
yesterday
@AndrewMorton Wow, I don't think I've come across that variant before. Or if I have, I don't remember it.
– Faheem Mitha
yesterday
@AndrewMorton Wow, I don't think I've come across that variant before. Or if I have, I don't remember it.
– Faheem Mitha
yesterday
How much the human weights is quite irrelevant: When the bullet leaves the gun, the gun has moved back by $102mm/83 = 1.2mm$ and is moving at a speed of $350frac{m}{s}/83 = 4.2frac{m}{s} = 15frac{km}{h}$. The gun subsequently basically crashes into the human at that speed: The tiny translation of $1.2mm$ is simply not enough to transmit any relevant forces.
– cmaster
yesterday
How much the human weights is quite irrelevant: When the bullet leaves the gun, the gun has moved back by $102mm/83 = 1.2mm$ and is moving at a speed of $350frac{m}{s}/83 = 4.2frac{m}{s} = 15frac{km}{h}$. The gun subsequently basically crashes into the human at that speed: The tiny translation of $1.2mm$ is simply not enough to transmit any relevant forces.
– cmaster
yesterday
That said, if you half the weight of the gun, you get it crashing into the user at twice the speed, i.e. $30frac{km}{h}$, which is definitely not fun.
– cmaster
yesterday
That said, if you half the weight of the gun, you get it crashing into the user at twice the speed, i.e. $30frac{km}{h}$, which is definitely not fun.
– cmaster
yesterday
|
show 1 more comment
Assuming impulse invariance, roughly the same amount of momentum is transferred to the shooter and the bullet and ultimately the target. However, if momentum was the only lethal element of a bullet, there would not be such a thing as a bullet-proof vest since a bullet-proof vest cannot keep momentum off the target (you'd need a ground-mounted shield for that). It can, however, absorb and disperse energy which, as opposed to momentum, grows with the square of the speed of moving mass. A bullet will often not transfer all of its energy to the target unless it gets stuck and will rather work by inflicting deadly injury, but there are some that are designed to stop and/or disperse on entry, like hollow point bullets. Those tend to be much more deadly than an ordinary bullet even when not hitting vital parts of the body.
So the basic point is that a pistol has more mass than the bullet, so while they share momentum equally (at least when discounting what exhaust fumes may do), they don't receive equal amounts of energy.
Note that shoulder-held rocket launchers are built in a way where the exhaust fumes (which continue accelerating the rocket via conservation of momentum) can leave the launcher at its back, thus minimizing the amount of momentum transferred to the operator (naturally, the place behind someone with a rocket launcher is a very bad place to be as opposed to being behind a gunner). Since it is the pressure of the propellant explosion rather than the momentum of something leaving the bullet, this kind of mechanism is not feasible with a gun to a good degree.
add a comment |
Assuming impulse invariance, roughly the same amount of momentum is transferred to the shooter and the bullet and ultimately the target. However, if momentum was the only lethal element of a bullet, there would not be such a thing as a bullet-proof vest since a bullet-proof vest cannot keep momentum off the target (you'd need a ground-mounted shield for that). It can, however, absorb and disperse energy which, as opposed to momentum, grows with the square of the speed of moving mass. A bullet will often not transfer all of its energy to the target unless it gets stuck and will rather work by inflicting deadly injury, but there are some that are designed to stop and/or disperse on entry, like hollow point bullets. Those tend to be much more deadly than an ordinary bullet even when not hitting vital parts of the body.
So the basic point is that a pistol has more mass than the bullet, so while they share momentum equally (at least when discounting what exhaust fumes may do), they don't receive equal amounts of energy.
Note that shoulder-held rocket launchers are built in a way where the exhaust fumes (which continue accelerating the rocket via conservation of momentum) can leave the launcher at its back, thus minimizing the amount of momentum transferred to the operator (naturally, the place behind someone with a rocket launcher is a very bad place to be as opposed to being behind a gunner). Since it is the pressure of the propellant explosion rather than the momentum of something leaving the bullet, this kind of mechanism is not feasible with a gun to a good degree.
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Assuming impulse invariance, roughly the same amount of momentum is transferred to the shooter and the bullet and ultimately the target. However, if momentum was the only lethal element of a bullet, there would not be such a thing as a bullet-proof vest since a bullet-proof vest cannot keep momentum off the target (you'd need a ground-mounted shield for that). It can, however, absorb and disperse energy which, as opposed to momentum, grows with the square of the speed of moving mass. A bullet will often not transfer all of its energy to the target unless it gets stuck and will rather work by inflicting deadly injury, but there are some that are designed to stop and/or disperse on entry, like hollow point bullets. Those tend to be much more deadly than an ordinary bullet even when not hitting vital parts of the body.
So the basic point is that a pistol has more mass than the bullet, so while they share momentum equally (at least when discounting what exhaust fumes may do), they don't receive equal amounts of energy.
Note that shoulder-held rocket launchers are built in a way where the exhaust fumes (which continue accelerating the rocket via conservation of momentum) can leave the launcher at its back, thus minimizing the amount of momentum transferred to the operator (naturally, the place behind someone with a rocket launcher is a very bad place to be as opposed to being behind a gunner). Since it is the pressure of the propellant explosion rather than the momentum of something leaving the bullet, this kind of mechanism is not feasible with a gun to a good degree.
Assuming impulse invariance, roughly the same amount of momentum is transferred to the shooter and the bullet and ultimately the target. However, if momentum was the only lethal element of a bullet, there would not be such a thing as a bullet-proof vest since a bullet-proof vest cannot keep momentum off the target (you'd need a ground-mounted shield for that). It can, however, absorb and disperse energy which, as opposed to momentum, grows with the square of the speed of moving mass. A bullet will often not transfer all of its energy to the target unless it gets stuck and will rather work by inflicting deadly injury, but there are some that are designed to stop and/or disperse on entry, like hollow point bullets. Those tend to be much more deadly than an ordinary bullet even when not hitting vital parts of the body.
So the basic point is that a pistol has more mass than the bullet, so while they share momentum equally (at least when discounting what exhaust fumes may do), they don't receive equal amounts of energy.
Note that shoulder-held rocket launchers are built in a way where the exhaust fumes (which continue accelerating the rocket via conservation of momentum) can leave the launcher at its back, thus minimizing the amount of momentum transferred to the operator (naturally, the place behind someone with a rocket launcher is a very bad place to be as opposed to being behind a gunner). Since it is the pressure of the propellant explosion rather than the momentum of something leaving the bullet, this kind of mechanism is not feasible with a gun to a good degree.
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