Froebenius norm is unitarily invariant.












5














I'm considering the norm defined on matrices by



$$|A|_F = sqrt{sum_{i,j}|a_{ij}|^2}$$



I want to show that it is unitarily invariant, so that for unitary $U$ we have that



$$|UA|_F = |A|_F = |AU|_F$$



however I have trouble doing it directly. Writing $|UA|_F$ directly I find by Cauchy-Schwarz that



$$|UA|_F = sqrt{sum_{i,j}left|sum_{k=1}^{n}u_{ik}a_{kj}right|^2}= sqrt{sum_{i,j}|langle U_i,overline{A_j}rangle|^2}leq sqrt{sum_{i,j}|A_j|^2}$$



where $U_i$ denotes the $i$th row of $U$ and $A_j$ the $j$th column of $A$. However this estimate is to crude and will not equal $|A|_F$. I would like to prove this without refering to trace or singular values and would appreciate a hint, rather than a full solution, on how to tackle this problem.





EDIT: Completion of the proof based on the answer from $A.Gamma$:



Since the rows of $U$ constitute an orthonormal basis for $mathbb{C}^n$ we find by Parsevals theorem that



$$|UA_j|_2^2 = sum_{i=1}^{n}left|sum_{k=1}^{n}u_{ik}a_{kj}right|^2 = sum_{i=1}^{n}|langle U_i,overline{A_j}rangle|^2 = |overline{A_j}|_2^2 = |A_j|_2^2$$










share|cite|improve this question





























    5














    I'm considering the norm defined on matrices by



    $$|A|_F = sqrt{sum_{i,j}|a_{ij}|^2}$$



    I want to show that it is unitarily invariant, so that for unitary $U$ we have that



    $$|UA|_F = |A|_F = |AU|_F$$



    however I have trouble doing it directly. Writing $|UA|_F$ directly I find by Cauchy-Schwarz that



    $$|UA|_F = sqrt{sum_{i,j}left|sum_{k=1}^{n}u_{ik}a_{kj}right|^2}= sqrt{sum_{i,j}|langle U_i,overline{A_j}rangle|^2}leq sqrt{sum_{i,j}|A_j|^2}$$



    where $U_i$ denotes the $i$th row of $U$ and $A_j$ the $j$th column of $A$. However this estimate is to crude and will not equal $|A|_F$. I would like to prove this without refering to trace or singular values and would appreciate a hint, rather than a full solution, on how to tackle this problem.





    EDIT: Completion of the proof based on the answer from $A.Gamma$:



    Since the rows of $U$ constitute an orthonormal basis for $mathbb{C}^n$ we find by Parsevals theorem that



    $$|UA_j|_2^2 = sum_{i=1}^{n}left|sum_{k=1}^{n}u_{ik}a_{kj}right|^2 = sum_{i=1}^{n}|langle U_i,overline{A_j}rangle|^2 = |overline{A_j}|_2^2 = |A_j|_2^2$$










    share|cite|improve this question



























      5












      5








      5


      0





      I'm considering the norm defined on matrices by



      $$|A|_F = sqrt{sum_{i,j}|a_{ij}|^2}$$



      I want to show that it is unitarily invariant, so that for unitary $U$ we have that



      $$|UA|_F = |A|_F = |AU|_F$$



      however I have trouble doing it directly. Writing $|UA|_F$ directly I find by Cauchy-Schwarz that



      $$|UA|_F = sqrt{sum_{i,j}left|sum_{k=1}^{n}u_{ik}a_{kj}right|^2}= sqrt{sum_{i,j}|langle U_i,overline{A_j}rangle|^2}leq sqrt{sum_{i,j}|A_j|^2}$$



      where $U_i$ denotes the $i$th row of $U$ and $A_j$ the $j$th column of $A$. However this estimate is to crude and will not equal $|A|_F$. I would like to prove this without refering to trace or singular values and would appreciate a hint, rather than a full solution, on how to tackle this problem.





      EDIT: Completion of the proof based on the answer from $A.Gamma$:



      Since the rows of $U$ constitute an orthonormal basis for $mathbb{C}^n$ we find by Parsevals theorem that



      $$|UA_j|_2^2 = sum_{i=1}^{n}left|sum_{k=1}^{n}u_{ik}a_{kj}right|^2 = sum_{i=1}^{n}|langle U_i,overline{A_j}rangle|^2 = |overline{A_j}|_2^2 = |A_j|_2^2$$










      share|cite|improve this question















      I'm considering the norm defined on matrices by



      $$|A|_F = sqrt{sum_{i,j}|a_{ij}|^2}$$



      I want to show that it is unitarily invariant, so that for unitary $U$ we have that



      $$|UA|_F = |A|_F = |AU|_F$$



      however I have trouble doing it directly. Writing $|UA|_F$ directly I find by Cauchy-Schwarz that



      $$|UA|_F = sqrt{sum_{i,j}left|sum_{k=1}^{n}u_{ik}a_{kj}right|^2}= sqrt{sum_{i,j}|langle U_i,overline{A_j}rangle|^2}leq sqrt{sum_{i,j}|A_j|^2}$$



      where $U_i$ denotes the $i$th row of $U$ and $A_j$ the $j$th column of $A$. However this estimate is to crude and will not equal $|A|_F$. I would like to prove this without refering to trace or singular values and would appreciate a hint, rather than a full solution, on how to tackle this problem.





      EDIT: Completion of the proof based on the answer from $A.Gamma$:



      Since the rows of $U$ constitute an orthonormal basis for $mathbb{C}^n$ we find by Parsevals theorem that



      $$|UA_j|_2^2 = sum_{i=1}^{n}left|sum_{k=1}^{n}u_{ik}a_{kj}right|^2 = sum_{i=1}^{n}|langle U_i,overline{A_j}rangle|^2 = |overline{A_j}|_2^2 = |A_j|_2^2$$







      linear-algebra matrices norm






      share|cite|improve this question















      share|cite|improve this question













      share|cite|improve this question




      share|cite|improve this question








      edited 1 hour ago

























      asked 1 hour ago









      Olof Rubin

      1,075315




      1,075315






















          2 Answers
          2






          active

          oldest

          votes


















          4














          Since
          $$
          UA=[UA_1 UA_2 ldots UA_n]
          $$

          you need to prove that
          $$
          |UA|_F^2=sum_{j=1}^n|UA_j|_2^2stackrel{?}{=}sum_{j=1}^n|A_j|_2^2=|A|_F^2.
          $$

          It suffice to prove that $|UA_j|_2^2=|A_j|_2^2$.



          P.S. For $AU$ use conjugation.






          share|cite|improve this answer





















          • I see we can use that the rows of $U$ constitute an ONB for $mathbb{C}^n$, I completed my proof above using your recommendation. Thank you. I realise now that part of my confusion came from the fact that unitary matrices don't need to have norm $1$.
            – Olof Rubin
            1 hour ago












          • @OlofRubin Alternatively, one can use that a unitary matrix is isometric, i.e. $|Ux|_2=|x|_2$. Proof: $$|Ux|_2^2=(Ux)^*Ux=x^*underbrace{U^*U}_{=I}x=x^*x=|x|_2^2.$$
            – A.Γ.
            1 hour ago










          • Ah yes that is more direct.
            – Olof Rubin
            22 mins ago



















          2














          Quick and dirty:



          $$|UA|_F^2 = operatorname{Tr}((UA)^*(UA)) = operatorname{Tr}(A^*U^*UA) = operatorname{Tr}(A^*A) = |A|_F^2$$
          and then since $U^*$ is also unitary
          $$|AU|_F^2 = |(U^*A^*)^*|_F^2 = |U^*A^*|_F^2 = |A^*|_F^2 = |A|_F^2$$





          Alternative argument:



          Note that $A^*A ge 0$ so there exists an orthonormal basis ${u_1, ldots, u_n}$ for $mathbb{C}^n$ such that $A^*A u_i = lambda_i u_i$ for some $lambda ge 0$.



          We have
          $$sum_{i=1}^n |Au_i|_2^2 = sum_{i=1}^n langle Au_i, Au_irangle = sum_{i=1}^n langle A^*Au_i, u_irangle = sum_{i=1}^n lambda_i =operatorname{Tr}(A^*A) = |A|_F^2$$



          because the trace is the sum of eigenvalues.



          The interesting part is that the sum $sum_{i=1}^n |Au_i|_2^2$ is actually independent of the choice of the orthonormal basis ${u_1, ldots, u_n}$. Indeed, if ${v_1, ldots, v_n}$ is some other orthonormal basis for $mathbb{C}^n$, we have
          begin{align}
          sum_{i=1}^n |Au_i|_2^2 &= sum_{i=1}^n langle A^*Au_i, u_irangle\
          &= sum_{i=1}^n leftlangle sum_{j=1}^nlangle u_i,v_jrangle A^*A v_j , sum_{k=1}^nlangle u_i,v_krangle v_krightrangle\
          &= sum_{j=1}^n sum_{k=1}^n left(sum_{i=1}^nlangle u_i,v_jrangle langle v_k,u_irangleright)langle A^*A v_j,v_krangle\
          &= sum_{j=1}^n sum_{k=1}^n langle v_j,v_kranglelangle A^*A v_j,v_krangle\
          &= sum_{j=1}^n langle A^*A v_j,v_jrangle\
          &= sum_{j=1}^n |Av_j|_2^2
          end{align}



          Now, if $U$ is unitary, for any orthonormal basis ${u_1, ldots, u_n}$ we have that ${Uu_1, ldots, Uu_n}$ is also an orthonormal basis so:



          $$|AU|_F^2 = sum_{i=1}^n |A(Ue_i)|^2 = |A|_F^2$$






          share|cite|improve this answer























          • That's true, but the OP doesn't want to refer to trace.
            – A.Γ.
            1 hour ago












          • @A.Γ. True, I missed that. Your argument is great. I have added an alternative argument which may be helpful, but it still uses the trace.
            – mechanodroid
            1 hour ago











          Your Answer





          StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function () {
          return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function () {
          StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix) {
          StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["$", "$"], ["\\(","\\)"]]);
          });
          });
          }, "mathjax-editing");

          StackExchange.ready(function() {
          var channelOptions = {
          tags: "".split(" "),
          id: "69"
          };
          initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

          StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
          // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
          if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
          StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
          createEditor();
          });
          }
          else {
          createEditor();
          }
          });

          function createEditor() {
          StackExchange.prepareEditor({
          heartbeatType: 'answer',
          autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
          convertImagesToLinks: true,
          noModals: true,
          showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
          reputationToPostImages: 10,
          bindNavPrevention: true,
          postfix: "",
          imageUploader: {
          brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
          contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
          allowUrls: true
          },
          noCode: true, onDemand: true,
          discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
          ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
          });


          }
          });














          draft saved

          draft discarded


















          StackExchange.ready(
          function () {
          StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f3061577%2ffroebenius-norm-is-unitarily-invariant%23new-answer', 'question_page');
          }
          );

          Post as a guest















          Required, but never shown

























          2 Answers
          2






          active

          oldest

          votes








          2 Answers
          2






          active

          oldest

          votes









          active

          oldest

          votes






          active

          oldest

          votes









          4














          Since
          $$
          UA=[UA_1 UA_2 ldots UA_n]
          $$

          you need to prove that
          $$
          |UA|_F^2=sum_{j=1}^n|UA_j|_2^2stackrel{?}{=}sum_{j=1}^n|A_j|_2^2=|A|_F^2.
          $$

          It suffice to prove that $|UA_j|_2^2=|A_j|_2^2$.



          P.S. For $AU$ use conjugation.






          share|cite|improve this answer





















          • I see we can use that the rows of $U$ constitute an ONB for $mathbb{C}^n$, I completed my proof above using your recommendation. Thank you. I realise now that part of my confusion came from the fact that unitary matrices don't need to have norm $1$.
            – Olof Rubin
            1 hour ago












          • @OlofRubin Alternatively, one can use that a unitary matrix is isometric, i.e. $|Ux|_2=|x|_2$. Proof: $$|Ux|_2^2=(Ux)^*Ux=x^*underbrace{U^*U}_{=I}x=x^*x=|x|_2^2.$$
            – A.Γ.
            1 hour ago










          • Ah yes that is more direct.
            – Olof Rubin
            22 mins ago
















          4














          Since
          $$
          UA=[UA_1 UA_2 ldots UA_n]
          $$

          you need to prove that
          $$
          |UA|_F^2=sum_{j=1}^n|UA_j|_2^2stackrel{?}{=}sum_{j=1}^n|A_j|_2^2=|A|_F^2.
          $$

          It suffice to prove that $|UA_j|_2^2=|A_j|_2^2$.



          P.S. For $AU$ use conjugation.






          share|cite|improve this answer





















          • I see we can use that the rows of $U$ constitute an ONB for $mathbb{C}^n$, I completed my proof above using your recommendation. Thank you. I realise now that part of my confusion came from the fact that unitary matrices don't need to have norm $1$.
            – Olof Rubin
            1 hour ago












          • @OlofRubin Alternatively, one can use that a unitary matrix is isometric, i.e. $|Ux|_2=|x|_2$. Proof: $$|Ux|_2^2=(Ux)^*Ux=x^*underbrace{U^*U}_{=I}x=x^*x=|x|_2^2.$$
            – A.Γ.
            1 hour ago










          • Ah yes that is more direct.
            – Olof Rubin
            22 mins ago














          4












          4








          4






          Since
          $$
          UA=[UA_1 UA_2 ldots UA_n]
          $$

          you need to prove that
          $$
          |UA|_F^2=sum_{j=1}^n|UA_j|_2^2stackrel{?}{=}sum_{j=1}^n|A_j|_2^2=|A|_F^2.
          $$

          It suffice to prove that $|UA_j|_2^2=|A_j|_2^2$.



          P.S. For $AU$ use conjugation.






          share|cite|improve this answer












          Since
          $$
          UA=[UA_1 UA_2 ldots UA_n]
          $$

          you need to prove that
          $$
          |UA|_F^2=sum_{j=1}^n|UA_j|_2^2stackrel{?}{=}sum_{j=1}^n|A_j|_2^2=|A|_F^2.
          $$

          It suffice to prove that $|UA_j|_2^2=|A_j|_2^2$.



          P.S. For $AU$ use conjugation.







          share|cite|improve this answer












          share|cite|improve this answer



          share|cite|improve this answer










          answered 1 hour ago









          A.Γ.

          22.4k32455




          22.4k32455












          • I see we can use that the rows of $U$ constitute an ONB for $mathbb{C}^n$, I completed my proof above using your recommendation. Thank you. I realise now that part of my confusion came from the fact that unitary matrices don't need to have norm $1$.
            – Olof Rubin
            1 hour ago












          • @OlofRubin Alternatively, one can use that a unitary matrix is isometric, i.e. $|Ux|_2=|x|_2$. Proof: $$|Ux|_2^2=(Ux)^*Ux=x^*underbrace{U^*U}_{=I}x=x^*x=|x|_2^2.$$
            – A.Γ.
            1 hour ago










          • Ah yes that is more direct.
            – Olof Rubin
            22 mins ago


















          • I see we can use that the rows of $U$ constitute an ONB for $mathbb{C}^n$, I completed my proof above using your recommendation. Thank you. I realise now that part of my confusion came from the fact that unitary matrices don't need to have norm $1$.
            – Olof Rubin
            1 hour ago












          • @OlofRubin Alternatively, one can use that a unitary matrix is isometric, i.e. $|Ux|_2=|x|_2$. Proof: $$|Ux|_2^2=(Ux)^*Ux=x^*underbrace{U^*U}_{=I}x=x^*x=|x|_2^2.$$
            – A.Γ.
            1 hour ago










          • Ah yes that is more direct.
            – Olof Rubin
            22 mins ago
















          I see we can use that the rows of $U$ constitute an ONB for $mathbb{C}^n$, I completed my proof above using your recommendation. Thank you. I realise now that part of my confusion came from the fact that unitary matrices don't need to have norm $1$.
          – Olof Rubin
          1 hour ago






          I see we can use that the rows of $U$ constitute an ONB for $mathbb{C}^n$, I completed my proof above using your recommendation. Thank you. I realise now that part of my confusion came from the fact that unitary matrices don't need to have norm $1$.
          – Olof Rubin
          1 hour ago














          @OlofRubin Alternatively, one can use that a unitary matrix is isometric, i.e. $|Ux|_2=|x|_2$. Proof: $$|Ux|_2^2=(Ux)^*Ux=x^*underbrace{U^*U}_{=I}x=x^*x=|x|_2^2.$$
          – A.Γ.
          1 hour ago




          @OlofRubin Alternatively, one can use that a unitary matrix is isometric, i.e. $|Ux|_2=|x|_2$. Proof: $$|Ux|_2^2=(Ux)^*Ux=x^*underbrace{U^*U}_{=I}x=x^*x=|x|_2^2.$$
          – A.Γ.
          1 hour ago












          Ah yes that is more direct.
          – Olof Rubin
          22 mins ago




          Ah yes that is more direct.
          – Olof Rubin
          22 mins ago











          2














          Quick and dirty:



          $$|UA|_F^2 = operatorname{Tr}((UA)^*(UA)) = operatorname{Tr}(A^*U^*UA) = operatorname{Tr}(A^*A) = |A|_F^2$$
          and then since $U^*$ is also unitary
          $$|AU|_F^2 = |(U^*A^*)^*|_F^2 = |U^*A^*|_F^2 = |A^*|_F^2 = |A|_F^2$$





          Alternative argument:



          Note that $A^*A ge 0$ so there exists an orthonormal basis ${u_1, ldots, u_n}$ for $mathbb{C}^n$ such that $A^*A u_i = lambda_i u_i$ for some $lambda ge 0$.



          We have
          $$sum_{i=1}^n |Au_i|_2^2 = sum_{i=1}^n langle Au_i, Au_irangle = sum_{i=1}^n langle A^*Au_i, u_irangle = sum_{i=1}^n lambda_i =operatorname{Tr}(A^*A) = |A|_F^2$$



          because the trace is the sum of eigenvalues.



          The interesting part is that the sum $sum_{i=1}^n |Au_i|_2^2$ is actually independent of the choice of the orthonormal basis ${u_1, ldots, u_n}$. Indeed, if ${v_1, ldots, v_n}$ is some other orthonormal basis for $mathbb{C}^n$, we have
          begin{align}
          sum_{i=1}^n |Au_i|_2^2 &= sum_{i=1}^n langle A^*Au_i, u_irangle\
          &= sum_{i=1}^n leftlangle sum_{j=1}^nlangle u_i,v_jrangle A^*A v_j , sum_{k=1}^nlangle u_i,v_krangle v_krightrangle\
          &= sum_{j=1}^n sum_{k=1}^n left(sum_{i=1}^nlangle u_i,v_jrangle langle v_k,u_irangleright)langle A^*A v_j,v_krangle\
          &= sum_{j=1}^n sum_{k=1}^n langle v_j,v_kranglelangle A^*A v_j,v_krangle\
          &= sum_{j=1}^n langle A^*A v_j,v_jrangle\
          &= sum_{j=1}^n |Av_j|_2^2
          end{align}



          Now, if $U$ is unitary, for any orthonormal basis ${u_1, ldots, u_n}$ we have that ${Uu_1, ldots, Uu_n}$ is also an orthonormal basis so:



          $$|AU|_F^2 = sum_{i=1}^n |A(Ue_i)|^2 = |A|_F^2$$






          share|cite|improve this answer























          • That's true, but the OP doesn't want to refer to trace.
            – A.Γ.
            1 hour ago












          • @A.Γ. True, I missed that. Your argument is great. I have added an alternative argument which may be helpful, but it still uses the trace.
            – mechanodroid
            1 hour ago
















          2














          Quick and dirty:



          $$|UA|_F^2 = operatorname{Tr}((UA)^*(UA)) = operatorname{Tr}(A^*U^*UA) = operatorname{Tr}(A^*A) = |A|_F^2$$
          and then since $U^*$ is also unitary
          $$|AU|_F^2 = |(U^*A^*)^*|_F^2 = |U^*A^*|_F^2 = |A^*|_F^2 = |A|_F^2$$





          Alternative argument:



          Note that $A^*A ge 0$ so there exists an orthonormal basis ${u_1, ldots, u_n}$ for $mathbb{C}^n$ such that $A^*A u_i = lambda_i u_i$ for some $lambda ge 0$.



          We have
          $$sum_{i=1}^n |Au_i|_2^2 = sum_{i=1}^n langle Au_i, Au_irangle = sum_{i=1}^n langle A^*Au_i, u_irangle = sum_{i=1}^n lambda_i =operatorname{Tr}(A^*A) = |A|_F^2$$



          because the trace is the sum of eigenvalues.



          The interesting part is that the sum $sum_{i=1}^n |Au_i|_2^2$ is actually independent of the choice of the orthonormal basis ${u_1, ldots, u_n}$. Indeed, if ${v_1, ldots, v_n}$ is some other orthonormal basis for $mathbb{C}^n$, we have
          begin{align}
          sum_{i=1}^n |Au_i|_2^2 &= sum_{i=1}^n langle A^*Au_i, u_irangle\
          &= sum_{i=1}^n leftlangle sum_{j=1}^nlangle u_i,v_jrangle A^*A v_j , sum_{k=1}^nlangle u_i,v_krangle v_krightrangle\
          &= sum_{j=1}^n sum_{k=1}^n left(sum_{i=1}^nlangle u_i,v_jrangle langle v_k,u_irangleright)langle A^*A v_j,v_krangle\
          &= sum_{j=1}^n sum_{k=1}^n langle v_j,v_kranglelangle A^*A v_j,v_krangle\
          &= sum_{j=1}^n langle A^*A v_j,v_jrangle\
          &= sum_{j=1}^n |Av_j|_2^2
          end{align}



          Now, if $U$ is unitary, for any orthonormal basis ${u_1, ldots, u_n}$ we have that ${Uu_1, ldots, Uu_n}$ is also an orthonormal basis so:



          $$|AU|_F^2 = sum_{i=1}^n |A(Ue_i)|^2 = |A|_F^2$$






          share|cite|improve this answer























          • That's true, but the OP doesn't want to refer to trace.
            – A.Γ.
            1 hour ago












          • @A.Γ. True, I missed that. Your argument is great. I have added an alternative argument which may be helpful, but it still uses the trace.
            – mechanodroid
            1 hour ago














          2












          2








          2






          Quick and dirty:



          $$|UA|_F^2 = operatorname{Tr}((UA)^*(UA)) = operatorname{Tr}(A^*U^*UA) = operatorname{Tr}(A^*A) = |A|_F^2$$
          and then since $U^*$ is also unitary
          $$|AU|_F^2 = |(U^*A^*)^*|_F^2 = |U^*A^*|_F^2 = |A^*|_F^2 = |A|_F^2$$





          Alternative argument:



          Note that $A^*A ge 0$ so there exists an orthonormal basis ${u_1, ldots, u_n}$ for $mathbb{C}^n$ such that $A^*A u_i = lambda_i u_i$ for some $lambda ge 0$.



          We have
          $$sum_{i=1}^n |Au_i|_2^2 = sum_{i=1}^n langle Au_i, Au_irangle = sum_{i=1}^n langle A^*Au_i, u_irangle = sum_{i=1}^n lambda_i =operatorname{Tr}(A^*A) = |A|_F^2$$



          because the trace is the sum of eigenvalues.



          The interesting part is that the sum $sum_{i=1}^n |Au_i|_2^2$ is actually independent of the choice of the orthonormal basis ${u_1, ldots, u_n}$. Indeed, if ${v_1, ldots, v_n}$ is some other orthonormal basis for $mathbb{C}^n$, we have
          begin{align}
          sum_{i=1}^n |Au_i|_2^2 &= sum_{i=1}^n langle A^*Au_i, u_irangle\
          &= sum_{i=1}^n leftlangle sum_{j=1}^nlangle u_i,v_jrangle A^*A v_j , sum_{k=1}^nlangle u_i,v_krangle v_krightrangle\
          &= sum_{j=1}^n sum_{k=1}^n left(sum_{i=1}^nlangle u_i,v_jrangle langle v_k,u_irangleright)langle A^*A v_j,v_krangle\
          &= sum_{j=1}^n sum_{k=1}^n langle v_j,v_kranglelangle A^*A v_j,v_krangle\
          &= sum_{j=1}^n langle A^*A v_j,v_jrangle\
          &= sum_{j=1}^n |Av_j|_2^2
          end{align}



          Now, if $U$ is unitary, for any orthonormal basis ${u_1, ldots, u_n}$ we have that ${Uu_1, ldots, Uu_n}$ is also an orthonormal basis so:



          $$|AU|_F^2 = sum_{i=1}^n |A(Ue_i)|^2 = |A|_F^2$$






          share|cite|improve this answer














          Quick and dirty:



          $$|UA|_F^2 = operatorname{Tr}((UA)^*(UA)) = operatorname{Tr}(A^*U^*UA) = operatorname{Tr}(A^*A) = |A|_F^2$$
          and then since $U^*$ is also unitary
          $$|AU|_F^2 = |(U^*A^*)^*|_F^2 = |U^*A^*|_F^2 = |A^*|_F^2 = |A|_F^2$$





          Alternative argument:



          Note that $A^*A ge 0$ so there exists an orthonormal basis ${u_1, ldots, u_n}$ for $mathbb{C}^n$ such that $A^*A u_i = lambda_i u_i$ for some $lambda ge 0$.



          We have
          $$sum_{i=1}^n |Au_i|_2^2 = sum_{i=1}^n langle Au_i, Au_irangle = sum_{i=1}^n langle A^*Au_i, u_irangle = sum_{i=1}^n lambda_i =operatorname{Tr}(A^*A) = |A|_F^2$$



          because the trace is the sum of eigenvalues.



          The interesting part is that the sum $sum_{i=1}^n |Au_i|_2^2$ is actually independent of the choice of the orthonormal basis ${u_1, ldots, u_n}$. Indeed, if ${v_1, ldots, v_n}$ is some other orthonormal basis for $mathbb{C}^n$, we have
          begin{align}
          sum_{i=1}^n |Au_i|_2^2 &= sum_{i=1}^n langle A^*Au_i, u_irangle\
          &= sum_{i=1}^n leftlangle sum_{j=1}^nlangle u_i,v_jrangle A^*A v_j , sum_{k=1}^nlangle u_i,v_krangle v_krightrangle\
          &= sum_{j=1}^n sum_{k=1}^n left(sum_{i=1}^nlangle u_i,v_jrangle langle v_k,u_irangleright)langle A^*A v_j,v_krangle\
          &= sum_{j=1}^n sum_{k=1}^n langle v_j,v_kranglelangle A^*A v_j,v_krangle\
          &= sum_{j=1}^n langle A^*A v_j,v_jrangle\
          &= sum_{j=1}^n |Av_j|_2^2
          end{align}



          Now, if $U$ is unitary, for any orthonormal basis ${u_1, ldots, u_n}$ we have that ${Uu_1, ldots, Uu_n}$ is also an orthonormal basis so:



          $$|AU|_F^2 = sum_{i=1}^n |A(Ue_i)|^2 = |A|_F^2$$







          share|cite|improve this answer














          share|cite|improve this answer



          share|cite|improve this answer








          edited 1 hour ago

























          answered 1 hour ago









          mechanodroid

          26.8k62347




          26.8k62347












          • That's true, but the OP doesn't want to refer to trace.
            – A.Γ.
            1 hour ago












          • @A.Γ. True, I missed that. Your argument is great. I have added an alternative argument which may be helpful, but it still uses the trace.
            – mechanodroid
            1 hour ago


















          • That's true, but the OP doesn't want to refer to trace.
            – A.Γ.
            1 hour ago












          • @A.Γ. True, I missed that. Your argument is great. I have added an alternative argument which may be helpful, but it still uses the trace.
            – mechanodroid
            1 hour ago
















          That's true, but the OP doesn't want to refer to trace.
          – A.Γ.
          1 hour ago






          That's true, but the OP doesn't want to refer to trace.
          – A.Γ.
          1 hour ago














          @A.Γ. True, I missed that. Your argument is great. I have added an alternative argument which may be helpful, but it still uses the trace.
          – mechanodroid
          1 hour ago




          @A.Γ. True, I missed that. Your argument is great. I have added an alternative argument which may be helpful, but it still uses the trace.
          – mechanodroid
          1 hour ago


















          draft saved

          draft discarded




















































          Thanks for contributing an answer to Mathematics Stack Exchange!


          • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

          But avoid



          • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

          • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.


          Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.


          To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.





          Some of your past answers have not been well-received, and you're in danger of being blocked from answering.


          Please pay close attention to the following guidance:


          • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

          But avoid



          • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

          • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.


          To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




          draft saved


          draft discarded














          StackExchange.ready(
          function () {
          StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f3061577%2ffroebenius-norm-is-unitarily-invariant%23new-answer', 'question_page');
          }
          );

          Post as a guest















          Required, but never shown





















































          Required, but never shown














          Required, but never shown












          Required, but never shown







          Required, but never shown

































          Required, but never shown














          Required, but never shown












          Required, but never shown







          Required, but never shown







          Popular posts from this blog

          Understanding the information contained in the Deep Space Network XML data?

          Ross-on-Wye

          Eastern Orthodox Church