Dispute grade penalty for reading in class?
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I am in an large, entry level course targeted at engineers. A few weeks ago, I was reading for another class while my professor covered material I was familiar with, and she marked me down as absent for at least one and maybe two classes. She has a strict attendance policy so that she gives a 5 percent penalty for missing three or more classes, and I already have three marked absences.
The only relevant section in the syllabus says, "Good manners provide the foundation for proper classroom behavior: arrive on time, listen attentively and take detailed notes, remain quietly in your seat until dismissed by the instructor." There is a strict no-screen policy, but nothing about reading.
I am considering taking it up the ladder and arguing that she should have asked me to put the book away if she wanted me to, as I spoke to her multiple times between the time of the alleged offense and becoming aware that she had penalized me for it. Do I have a good chance of a grade appeal? on merit? statistically?
She is a teaching only professor, so I assume she doesn't have huge sway in the department. It is a ginormous class at a large school though, so I probably don't either.
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I am in an large, entry level course targeted at engineers. A few weeks ago, I was reading for another class while my professor covered material I was familiar with, and she marked me down as absent for at least one and maybe two classes. She has a strict attendance policy so that she gives a 5 percent penalty for missing three or more classes, and I already have three marked absences.
The only relevant section in the syllabus says, "Good manners provide the foundation for proper classroom behavior: arrive on time, listen attentively and take detailed notes, remain quietly in your seat until dismissed by the instructor." There is a strict no-screen policy, but nothing about reading.
I am considering taking it up the ladder and arguing that she should have asked me to put the book away if she wanted me to, as I spoke to her multiple times between the time of the alleged offense and becoming aware that she had penalized me for it. Do I have a good chance of a grade appeal? on merit? statistically?
She is a teaching only professor, so I assume she doesn't have huge sway in the department. It is a ginormous class at a large school though, so I probably don't either.
professors
New contributor
Do you mean that you were reading in class on only one day, but there is a possibility that you were penalized for this with two absences, or were you reading in class on multiple days?
– 1006a
4 hours ago
2
Administrators step in when things are extreme and the school's reputation may be affected, like failing everyone or giving everyone A's. Your argument is pretty weak and your injury (losing a few points) is trivial. You'd be better off nicely asking your teacher for another chance because you didn't realize reading wasn't allowed, and you had misjudged your own ability to multitask.
– A Simple Algorithm
2 hours ago
Are you certain she didn't accidentally mark you absent because she genuinely thought you were absent?
– Vaelus
1 hour ago
add a comment |
up vote
8
down vote
favorite
up vote
8
down vote
favorite
I am in an large, entry level course targeted at engineers. A few weeks ago, I was reading for another class while my professor covered material I was familiar with, and she marked me down as absent for at least one and maybe two classes. She has a strict attendance policy so that she gives a 5 percent penalty for missing three or more classes, and I already have three marked absences.
The only relevant section in the syllabus says, "Good manners provide the foundation for proper classroom behavior: arrive on time, listen attentively and take detailed notes, remain quietly in your seat until dismissed by the instructor." There is a strict no-screen policy, but nothing about reading.
I am considering taking it up the ladder and arguing that she should have asked me to put the book away if she wanted me to, as I spoke to her multiple times between the time of the alleged offense and becoming aware that she had penalized me for it. Do I have a good chance of a grade appeal? on merit? statistically?
She is a teaching only professor, so I assume she doesn't have huge sway in the department. It is a ginormous class at a large school though, so I probably don't either.
professors
New contributor
I am in an large, entry level course targeted at engineers. A few weeks ago, I was reading for another class while my professor covered material I was familiar with, and she marked me down as absent for at least one and maybe two classes. She has a strict attendance policy so that she gives a 5 percent penalty for missing three or more classes, and I already have three marked absences.
The only relevant section in the syllabus says, "Good manners provide the foundation for proper classroom behavior: arrive on time, listen attentively and take detailed notes, remain quietly in your seat until dismissed by the instructor." There is a strict no-screen policy, but nothing about reading.
I am considering taking it up the ladder and arguing that she should have asked me to put the book away if she wanted me to, as I spoke to her multiple times between the time of the alleged offense and becoming aware that she had penalized me for it. Do I have a good chance of a grade appeal? on merit? statistically?
She is a teaching only professor, so I assume she doesn't have huge sway in the department. It is a ginormous class at a large school though, so I probably don't either.
professors
professors
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Do you mean that you were reading in class on only one day, but there is a possibility that you were penalized for this with two absences, or were you reading in class on multiple days?
– 1006a
4 hours ago
2
Administrators step in when things are extreme and the school's reputation may be affected, like failing everyone or giving everyone A's. Your argument is pretty weak and your injury (losing a few points) is trivial. You'd be better off nicely asking your teacher for another chance because you didn't realize reading wasn't allowed, and you had misjudged your own ability to multitask.
– A Simple Algorithm
2 hours ago
Are you certain she didn't accidentally mark you absent because she genuinely thought you were absent?
– Vaelus
1 hour ago
add a comment |
Do you mean that you were reading in class on only one day, but there is a possibility that you were penalized for this with two absences, or were you reading in class on multiple days?
– 1006a
4 hours ago
2
Administrators step in when things are extreme and the school's reputation may be affected, like failing everyone or giving everyone A's. Your argument is pretty weak and your injury (losing a few points) is trivial. You'd be better off nicely asking your teacher for another chance because you didn't realize reading wasn't allowed, and you had misjudged your own ability to multitask.
– A Simple Algorithm
2 hours ago
Are you certain she didn't accidentally mark you absent because she genuinely thought you were absent?
– Vaelus
1 hour ago
Do you mean that you were reading in class on only one day, but there is a possibility that you were penalized for this with two absences, or were you reading in class on multiple days?
– 1006a
4 hours ago
Do you mean that you were reading in class on only one day, but there is a possibility that you were penalized for this with two absences, or were you reading in class on multiple days?
– 1006a
4 hours ago
2
2
Administrators step in when things are extreme and the school's reputation may be affected, like failing everyone or giving everyone A's. Your argument is pretty weak and your injury (losing a few points) is trivial. You'd be better off nicely asking your teacher for another chance because you didn't realize reading wasn't allowed, and you had misjudged your own ability to multitask.
– A Simple Algorithm
2 hours ago
Administrators step in when things are extreme and the school's reputation may be affected, like failing everyone or giving everyone A's. Your argument is pretty weak and your injury (losing a few points) is trivial. You'd be better off nicely asking your teacher for another chance because you didn't realize reading wasn't allowed, and you had misjudged your own ability to multitask.
– A Simple Algorithm
2 hours ago
Are you certain she didn't accidentally mark you absent because she genuinely thought you were absent?
– Vaelus
1 hour ago
Are you certain she didn't accidentally mark you absent because she genuinely thought you were absent?
– Vaelus
1 hour ago
add a comment |
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
up vote
18
down vote
The only relevant section in the syllabus says, "Good manners provide the foundation for proper classroom behavior: arrive on time, listen attentively and take detailed notes, remain quietly in your seat until dismissed by the instructor." There is a strict no-screen policy, but nothing about reading.
I am pretty sure that all department chairs would agree with a faculty member who concluded that reading in class is the opposite of listen attentively and take detailed notes. I would put your chances at exactly zero that the chair would override the decision to not credit you with attendance on that day, but marking you as absent for two days does not seem justified unless there is another penalty for not following proper classroom behavior.
Would all department chairs also agree that “take detailed notes” has anything whatsoever to do with either “good manners” or “proper classroom behavior”? I’m not so sure (in fact, as a former department chair I’m pretty sure I would not agree to those assertions). Moreover, I’m not sure I’d agree that a professor has the authority to mandate her students to listen to her or risk a grade penalty.
– Dan Romik
1 hour ago
@DanRomik I am not sure how note taking fits with good manners, but I think of a syllabus as being as being as close as most classes get to a learning contract. A chair or a colleague might suggest not to do that in the future, but it is not so egregious that a chair should step in.
– StrongBad♦
27 mins ago
add a comment |
up vote
3
down vote
Your best chance is to ask for probation, but you must also admit a no-brainer. It's all in here, try this:
"I am writing concerning the two absences I was deducted on account of reading unrelated textbooks during class. I request probation to have the statutory absences removed, but only on the condition that during finals I present responsible class notes for the remainder of the semester. As an engineering student, I should know that reading a textbook applies to the same principle as a the policy ban on mobile screens in class. Though this is an introductory class, covering information with which I consider myself to be familiar, I will hold a newfound respect for the importance of both foundational skills and the demonstrable pedagogical value of reviewing them. My grades are of concern to me, so if you as the lecturing professor will not grant me an achievable probation, I will appeal by forwarding this same letter to the department chair, but no higher."
New contributor
2
This isn't bad, but I would be more concise, less sesquipedalian, and would certainly avoid the threat in the last sentence. Something like "I am writing to apologize for reading textbooks during class. My only excuse is that I was already familiar with the particular material you were presenting on the day in question. But of course I now realize that this is not allowed. I would really appreciate it if you would reconsider penalizing my attendance over this matter. I will certainly not do it again."
– cag51
2 hours ago
@cag51 I respect your rep, you have good points. The goal is to help a student learn and get these absences reversed fairly. Being sesquipedalian could go either way. IMHE some profs like big words and especially respect students who consider pedagogical method. Academic rule #1 is that we don't know until we try. I use use Satir's "Computer Mode", which is often wise. IMHO, I only disagree: 1. you defend, then concede; that's Satir's "Placater Mode", seems good, won't work, 2. the final is no threat, but a needed reminder of process, prerogative, what next, and self-limit; respectful overall.
– Jesse Steele
1 hour ago
...If you have a right to appeal, always remind everyone of that in a respectful, matter-of-fact way. Even if the person you disagree with "feels" threatened, they aren't allowed to say so because it is a matter of rights and procedure. Omit the part about your rights and you're toast; this isn't theoretical, it's experience. Respect comes from the overall tone. This letter clearly regards the prof as mostly in the right and does not bow. That's the best change.
– Jesse Steele
1 hour ago
1
Thanks for explanation. I admit I was thinking mostly about what I would find most compelling if I were the teacher (this draft would really rub me the wrong way), but, on the other hand, I really disagree with this professor's policy, so fair to say that my reaction to the letter might not be a fair gauge of this professor's reaction. In any case, time for me to go read about Satir's modes :-)
– cag51
1 hour ago
@cag51 And your comments also, ty. I might edit/add some "diplomacy explanation" to my answer later. I had some links to Satir here: interpersonal.stackexchange.com/q/20022/22996. On my phone, ttyl
– Jesse Steele
1 hour ago
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
I would still take it up the ladder since that sounds like a stupid policy.
In my opinion, if she's not able to keep your interest, she should consider raising the level of the class, but there's only so much she can raise it without losing other students. It's not always possible to keep everyone's interest and you can't expect students to feign interest because it makes you feel important.
What does she care if you're quietly reading? It sounds like she childishly wants to be listened to. That's beyond wanting "good manners". She wants devotion.
You might as well complain to her dean. Even if you don't get what you want, if enough people complain, it's at least annoying for the dean who might pass the message on to her in one way or another.
It may be a reaction to past problems - students not being aware of important information because, even though physically present, they were mentally absent.
– Patricia Shanahan
2 hours ago
3
@PatriciaShanahan Most classes factor that kind of problem into grades using examinations rather than attendance.
– Neil G
2 hours ago
3
I agree that it is an unwise policy, but most universities will give their professor's considerable latitude and discretion. Something can be unwise, even clearly unwise, and still be well within a decision maker's authority.
– TimothyAWiseman
2 hours ago
I agree with both of you -- escalating is unlikely to get your points back, but this is such a stupid policy (insisting that your students waste time listening to material they already know) that I would still send a complaint anyway. (Though, groveling to the instructor to try to get the points back might be necessary until grades are finalized)
– cag51
2 hours ago
add a comment |
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
18
down vote
The only relevant section in the syllabus says, "Good manners provide the foundation for proper classroom behavior: arrive on time, listen attentively and take detailed notes, remain quietly in your seat until dismissed by the instructor." There is a strict no-screen policy, but nothing about reading.
I am pretty sure that all department chairs would agree with a faculty member who concluded that reading in class is the opposite of listen attentively and take detailed notes. I would put your chances at exactly zero that the chair would override the decision to not credit you with attendance on that day, but marking you as absent for two days does not seem justified unless there is another penalty for not following proper classroom behavior.
Would all department chairs also agree that “take detailed notes” has anything whatsoever to do with either “good manners” or “proper classroom behavior”? I’m not so sure (in fact, as a former department chair I’m pretty sure I would not agree to those assertions). Moreover, I’m not sure I’d agree that a professor has the authority to mandate her students to listen to her or risk a grade penalty.
– Dan Romik
1 hour ago
@DanRomik I am not sure how note taking fits with good manners, but I think of a syllabus as being as being as close as most classes get to a learning contract. A chair or a colleague might suggest not to do that in the future, but it is not so egregious that a chair should step in.
– StrongBad♦
27 mins ago
add a comment |
up vote
18
down vote
The only relevant section in the syllabus says, "Good manners provide the foundation for proper classroom behavior: arrive on time, listen attentively and take detailed notes, remain quietly in your seat until dismissed by the instructor." There is a strict no-screen policy, but nothing about reading.
I am pretty sure that all department chairs would agree with a faculty member who concluded that reading in class is the opposite of listen attentively and take detailed notes. I would put your chances at exactly zero that the chair would override the decision to not credit you with attendance on that day, but marking you as absent for two days does not seem justified unless there is another penalty for not following proper classroom behavior.
Would all department chairs also agree that “take detailed notes” has anything whatsoever to do with either “good manners” or “proper classroom behavior”? I’m not so sure (in fact, as a former department chair I’m pretty sure I would not agree to those assertions). Moreover, I’m not sure I’d agree that a professor has the authority to mandate her students to listen to her or risk a grade penalty.
– Dan Romik
1 hour ago
@DanRomik I am not sure how note taking fits with good manners, but I think of a syllabus as being as being as close as most classes get to a learning contract. A chair or a colleague might suggest not to do that in the future, but it is not so egregious that a chair should step in.
– StrongBad♦
27 mins ago
add a comment |
up vote
18
down vote
up vote
18
down vote
The only relevant section in the syllabus says, "Good manners provide the foundation for proper classroom behavior: arrive on time, listen attentively and take detailed notes, remain quietly in your seat until dismissed by the instructor." There is a strict no-screen policy, but nothing about reading.
I am pretty sure that all department chairs would agree with a faculty member who concluded that reading in class is the opposite of listen attentively and take detailed notes. I would put your chances at exactly zero that the chair would override the decision to not credit you with attendance on that day, but marking you as absent for two days does not seem justified unless there is another penalty for not following proper classroom behavior.
The only relevant section in the syllabus says, "Good manners provide the foundation for proper classroom behavior: arrive on time, listen attentively and take detailed notes, remain quietly in your seat until dismissed by the instructor." There is a strict no-screen policy, but nothing about reading.
I am pretty sure that all department chairs would agree with a faculty member who concluded that reading in class is the opposite of listen attentively and take detailed notes. I would put your chances at exactly zero that the chair would override the decision to not credit you with attendance on that day, but marking you as absent for two days does not seem justified unless there is another penalty for not following proper classroom behavior.
answered 6 hours ago
StrongBad♦
80.3k22203403
80.3k22203403
Would all department chairs also agree that “take detailed notes” has anything whatsoever to do with either “good manners” or “proper classroom behavior”? I’m not so sure (in fact, as a former department chair I’m pretty sure I would not agree to those assertions). Moreover, I’m not sure I’d agree that a professor has the authority to mandate her students to listen to her or risk a grade penalty.
– Dan Romik
1 hour ago
@DanRomik I am not sure how note taking fits with good manners, but I think of a syllabus as being as being as close as most classes get to a learning contract. A chair or a colleague might suggest not to do that in the future, but it is not so egregious that a chair should step in.
– StrongBad♦
27 mins ago
add a comment |
Would all department chairs also agree that “take detailed notes” has anything whatsoever to do with either “good manners” or “proper classroom behavior”? I’m not so sure (in fact, as a former department chair I’m pretty sure I would not agree to those assertions). Moreover, I’m not sure I’d agree that a professor has the authority to mandate her students to listen to her or risk a grade penalty.
– Dan Romik
1 hour ago
@DanRomik I am not sure how note taking fits with good manners, but I think of a syllabus as being as being as close as most classes get to a learning contract. A chair or a colleague might suggest not to do that in the future, but it is not so egregious that a chair should step in.
– StrongBad♦
27 mins ago
Would all department chairs also agree that “take detailed notes” has anything whatsoever to do with either “good manners” or “proper classroom behavior”? I’m not so sure (in fact, as a former department chair I’m pretty sure I would not agree to those assertions). Moreover, I’m not sure I’d agree that a professor has the authority to mandate her students to listen to her or risk a grade penalty.
– Dan Romik
1 hour ago
Would all department chairs also agree that “take detailed notes” has anything whatsoever to do with either “good manners” or “proper classroom behavior”? I’m not so sure (in fact, as a former department chair I’m pretty sure I would not agree to those assertions). Moreover, I’m not sure I’d agree that a professor has the authority to mandate her students to listen to her or risk a grade penalty.
– Dan Romik
1 hour ago
@DanRomik I am not sure how note taking fits with good manners, but I think of a syllabus as being as being as close as most classes get to a learning contract. A chair or a colleague might suggest not to do that in the future, but it is not so egregious that a chair should step in.
– StrongBad♦
27 mins ago
@DanRomik I am not sure how note taking fits with good manners, but I think of a syllabus as being as being as close as most classes get to a learning contract. A chair or a colleague might suggest not to do that in the future, but it is not so egregious that a chair should step in.
– StrongBad♦
27 mins ago
add a comment |
up vote
3
down vote
Your best chance is to ask for probation, but you must also admit a no-brainer. It's all in here, try this:
"I am writing concerning the two absences I was deducted on account of reading unrelated textbooks during class. I request probation to have the statutory absences removed, but only on the condition that during finals I present responsible class notes for the remainder of the semester. As an engineering student, I should know that reading a textbook applies to the same principle as a the policy ban on mobile screens in class. Though this is an introductory class, covering information with which I consider myself to be familiar, I will hold a newfound respect for the importance of both foundational skills and the demonstrable pedagogical value of reviewing them. My grades are of concern to me, so if you as the lecturing professor will not grant me an achievable probation, I will appeal by forwarding this same letter to the department chair, but no higher."
New contributor
2
This isn't bad, but I would be more concise, less sesquipedalian, and would certainly avoid the threat in the last sentence. Something like "I am writing to apologize for reading textbooks during class. My only excuse is that I was already familiar with the particular material you were presenting on the day in question. But of course I now realize that this is not allowed. I would really appreciate it if you would reconsider penalizing my attendance over this matter. I will certainly not do it again."
– cag51
2 hours ago
@cag51 I respect your rep, you have good points. The goal is to help a student learn and get these absences reversed fairly. Being sesquipedalian could go either way. IMHE some profs like big words and especially respect students who consider pedagogical method. Academic rule #1 is that we don't know until we try. I use use Satir's "Computer Mode", which is often wise. IMHO, I only disagree: 1. you defend, then concede; that's Satir's "Placater Mode", seems good, won't work, 2. the final is no threat, but a needed reminder of process, prerogative, what next, and self-limit; respectful overall.
– Jesse Steele
1 hour ago
...If you have a right to appeal, always remind everyone of that in a respectful, matter-of-fact way. Even if the person you disagree with "feels" threatened, they aren't allowed to say so because it is a matter of rights and procedure. Omit the part about your rights and you're toast; this isn't theoretical, it's experience. Respect comes from the overall tone. This letter clearly regards the prof as mostly in the right and does not bow. That's the best change.
– Jesse Steele
1 hour ago
1
Thanks for explanation. I admit I was thinking mostly about what I would find most compelling if I were the teacher (this draft would really rub me the wrong way), but, on the other hand, I really disagree with this professor's policy, so fair to say that my reaction to the letter might not be a fair gauge of this professor's reaction. In any case, time for me to go read about Satir's modes :-)
– cag51
1 hour ago
@cag51 And your comments also, ty. I might edit/add some "diplomacy explanation" to my answer later. I had some links to Satir here: interpersonal.stackexchange.com/q/20022/22996. On my phone, ttyl
– Jesse Steele
1 hour ago
add a comment |
up vote
3
down vote
Your best chance is to ask for probation, but you must also admit a no-brainer. It's all in here, try this:
"I am writing concerning the two absences I was deducted on account of reading unrelated textbooks during class. I request probation to have the statutory absences removed, but only on the condition that during finals I present responsible class notes for the remainder of the semester. As an engineering student, I should know that reading a textbook applies to the same principle as a the policy ban on mobile screens in class. Though this is an introductory class, covering information with which I consider myself to be familiar, I will hold a newfound respect for the importance of both foundational skills and the demonstrable pedagogical value of reviewing them. My grades are of concern to me, so if you as the lecturing professor will not grant me an achievable probation, I will appeal by forwarding this same letter to the department chair, but no higher."
New contributor
2
This isn't bad, but I would be more concise, less sesquipedalian, and would certainly avoid the threat in the last sentence. Something like "I am writing to apologize for reading textbooks during class. My only excuse is that I was already familiar with the particular material you were presenting on the day in question. But of course I now realize that this is not allowed. I would really appreciate it if you would reconsider penalizing my attendance over this matter. I will certainly not do it again."
– cag51
2 hours ago
@cag51 I respect your rep, you have good points. The goal is to help a student learn and get these absences reversed fairly. Being sesquipedalian could go either way. IMHE some profs like big words and especially respect students who consider pedagogical method. Academic rule #1 is that we don't know until we try. I use use Satir's "Computer Mode", which is often wise. IMHO, I only disagree: 1. you defend, then concede; that's Satir's "Placater Mode", seems good, won't work, 2. the final is no threat, but a needed reminder of process, prerogative, what next, and self-limit; respectful overall.
– Jesse Steele
1 hour ago
...If you have a right to appeal, always remind everyone of that in a respectful, matter-of-fact way. Even if the person you disagree with "feels" threatened, they aren't allowed to say so because it is a matter of rights and procedure. Omit the part about your rights and you're toast; this isn't theoretical, it's experience. Respect comes from the overall tone. This letter clearly regards the prof as mostly in the right and does not bow. That's the best change.
– Jesse Steele
1 hour ago
1
Thanks for explanation. I admit I was thinking mostly about what I would find most compelling if I were the teacher (this draft would really rub me the wrong way), but, on the other hand, I really disagree with this professor's policy, so fair to say that my reaction to the letter might not be a fair gauge of this professor's reaction. In any case, time for me to go read about Satir's modes :-)
– cag51
1 hour ago
@cag51 And your comments also, ty. I might edit/add some "diplomacy explanation" to my answer later. I had some links to Satir here: interpersonal.stackexchange.com/q/20022/22996. On my phone, ttyl
– Jesse Steele
1 hour ago
add a comment |
up vote
3
down vote
up vote
3
down vote
Your best chance is to ask for probation, but you must also admit a no-brainer. It's all in here, try this:
"I am writing concerning the two absences I was deducted on account of reading unrelated textbooks during class. I request probation to have the statutory absences removed, but only on the condition that during finals I present responsible class notes for the remainder of the semester. As an engineering student, I should know that reading a textbook applies to the same principle as a the policy ban on mobile screens in class. Though this is an introductory class, covering information with which I consider myself to be familiar, I will hold a newfound respect for the importance of both foundational skills and the demonstrable pedagogical value of reviewing them. My grades are of concern to me, so if you as the lecturing professor will not grant me an achievable probation, I will appeal by forwarding this same letter to the department chair, but no higher."
New contributor
Your best chance is to ask for probation, but you must also admit a no-brainer. It's all in here, try this:
"I am writing concerning the two absences I was deducted on account of reading unrelated textbooks during class. I request probation to have the statutory absences removed, but only on the condition that during finals I present responsible class notes for the remainder of the semester. As an engineering student, I should know that reading a textbook applies to the same principle as a the policy ban on mobile screens in class. Though this is an introductory class, covering information with which I consider myself to be familiar, I will hold a newfound respect for the importance of both foundational skills and the demonstrable pedagogical value of reviewing them. My grades are of concern to me, so if you as the lecturing professor will not grant me an achievable probation, I will appeal by forwarding this same letter to the department chair, but no higher."
New contributor
New contributor
answered 3 hours ago
Jesse Steele
1314
1314
New contributor
New contributor
2
This isn't bad, but I would be more concise, less sesquipedalian, and would certainly avoid the threat in the last sentence. Something like "I am writing to apologize for reading textbooks during class. My only excuse is that I was already familiar with the particular material you were presenting on the day in question. But of course I now realize that this is not allowed. I would really appreciate it if you would reconsider penalizing my attendance over this matter. I will certainly not do it again."
– cag51
2 hours ago
@cag51 I respect your rep, you have good points. The goal is to help a student learn and get these absences reversed fairly. Being sesquipedalian could go either way. IMHE some profs like big words and especially respect students who consider pedagogical method. Academic rule #1 is that we don't know until we try. I use use Satir's "Computer Mode", which is often wise. IMHO, I only disagree: 1. you defend, then concede; that's Satir's "Placater Mode", seems good, won't work, 2. the final is no threat, but a needed reminder of process, prerogative, what next, and self-limit; respectful overall.
– Jesse Steele
1 hour ago
...If you have a right to appeal, always remind everyone of that in a respectful, matter-of-fact way. Even if the person you disagree with "feels" threatened, they aren't allowed to say so because it is a matter of rights and procedure. Omit the part about your rights and you're toast; this isn't theoretical, it's experience. Respect comes from the overall tone. This letter clearly regards the prof as mostly in the right and does not bow. That's the best change.
– Jesse Steele
1 hour ago
1
Thanks for explanation. I admit I was thinking mostly about what I would find most compelling if I were the teacher (this draft would really rub me the wrong way), but, on the other hand, I really disagree with this professor's policy, so fair to say that my reaction to the letter might not be a fair gauge of this professor's reaction. In any case, time for me to go read about Satir's modes :-)
– cag51
1 hour ago
@cag51 And your comments also, ty. I might edit/add some "diplomacy explanation" to my answer later. I had some links to Satir here: interpersonal.stackexchange.com/q/20022/22996. On my phone, ttyl
– Jesse Steele
1 hour ago
add a comment |
2
This isn't bad, but I would be more concise, less sesquipedalian, and would certainly avoid the threat in the last sentence. Something like "I am writing to apologize for reading textbooks during class. My only excuse is that I was already familiar with the particular material you were presenting on the day in question. But of course I now realize that this is not allowed. I would really appreciate it if you would reconsider penalizing my attendance over this matter. I will certainly not do it again."
– cag51
2 hours ago
@cag51 I respect your rep, you have good points. The goal is to help a student learn and get these absences reversed fairly. Being sesquipedalian could go either way. IMHE some profs like big words and especially respect students who consider pedagogical method. Academic rule #1 is that we don't know until we try. I use use Satir's "Computer Mode", which is often wise. IMHO, I only disagree: 1. you defend, then concede; that's Satir's "Placater Mode", seems good, won't work, 2. the final is no threat, but a needed reminder of process, prerogative, what next, and self-limit; respectful overall.
– Jesse Steele
1 hour ago
...If you have a right to appeal, always remind everyone of that in a respectful, matter-of-fact way. Even if the person you disagree with "feels" threatened, they aren't allowed to say so because it is a matter of rights and procedure. Omit the part about your rights and you're toast; this isn't theoretical, it's experience. Respect comes from the overall tone. This letter clearly regards the prof as mostly in the right and does not bow. That's the best change.
– Jesse Steele
1 hour ago
1
Thanks for explanation. I admit I was thinking mostly about what I would find most compelling if I were the teacher (this draft would really rub me the wrong way), but, on the other hand, I really disagree with this professor's policy, so fair to say that my reaction to the letter might not be a fair gauge of this professor's reaction. In any case, time for me to go read about Satir's modes :-)
– cag51
1 hour ago
@cag51 And your comments also, ty. I might edit/add some "diplomacy explanation" to my answer later. I had some links to Satir here: interpersonal.stackexchange.com/q/20022/22996. On my phone, ttyl
– Jesse Steele
1 hour ago
2
2
This isn't bad, but I would be more concise, less sesquipedalian, and would certainly avoid the threat in the last sentence. Something like "I am writing to apologize for reading textbooks during class. My only excuse is that I was already familiar with the particular material you were presenting on the day in question. But of course I now realize that this is not allowed. I would really appreciate it if you would reconsider penalizing my attendance over this matter. I will certainly not do it again."
– cag51
2 hours ago
This isn't bad, but I would be more concise, less sesquipedalian, and would certainly avoid the threat in the last sentence. Something like "I am writing to apologize for reading textbooks during class. My only excuse is that I was already familiar with the particular material you were presenting on the day in question. But of course I now realize that this is not allowed. I would really appreciate it if you would reconsider penalizing my attendance over this matter. I will certainly not do it again."
– cag51
2 hours ago
@cag51 I respect your rep, you have good points. The goal is to help a student learn and get these absences reversed fairly. Being sesquipedalian could go either way. IMHE some profs like big words and especially respect students who consider pedagogical method. Academic rule #1 is that we don't know until we try. I use use Satir's "Computer Mode", which is often wise. IMHO, I only disagree: 1. you defend, then concede; that's Satir's "Placater Mode", seems good, won't work, 2. the final is no threat, but a needed reminder of process, prerogative, what next, and self-limit; respectful overall.
– Jesse Steele
1 hour ago
@cag51 I respect your rep, you have good points. The goal is to help a student learn and get these absences reversed fairly. Being sesquipedalian could go either way. IMHE some profs like big words and especially respect students who consider pedagogical method. Academic rule #1 is that we don't know until we try. I use use Satir's "Computer Mode", which is often wise. IMHO, I only disagree: 1. you defend, then concede; that's Satir's "Placater Mode", seems good, won't work, 2. the final is no threat, but a needed reminder of process, prerogative, what next, and self-limit; respectful overall.
– Jesse Steele
1 hour ago
...If you have a right to appeal, always remind everyone of that in a respectful, matter-of-fact way. Even if the person you disagree with "feels" threatened, they aren't allowed to say so because it is a matter of rights and procedure. Omit the part about your rights and you're toast; this isn't theoretical, it's experience. Respect comes from the overall tone. This letter clearly regards the prof as mostly in the right and does not bow. That's the best change.
– Jesse Steele
1 hour ago
...If you have a right to appeal, always remind everyone of that in a respectful, matter-of-fact way. Even if the person you disagree with "feels" threatened, they aren't allowed to say so because it is a matter of rights and procedure. Omit the part about your rights and you're toast; this isn't theoretical, it's experience. Respect comes from the overall tone. This letter clearly regards the prof as mostly in the right and does not bow. That's the best change.
– Jesse Steele
1 hour ago
1
1
Thanks for explanation. I admit I was thinking mostly about what I would find most compelling if I were the teacher (this draft would really rub me the wrong way), but, on the other hand, I really disagree with this professor's policy, so fair to say that my reaction to the letter might not be a fair gauge of this professor's reaction. In any case, time for me to go read about Satir's modes :-)
– cag51
1 hour ago
Thanks for explanation. I admit I was thinking mostly about what I would find most compelling if I were the teacher (this draft would really rub me the wrong way), but, on the other hand, I really disagree with this professor's policy, so fair to say that my reaction to the letter might not be a fair gauge of this professor's reaction. In any case, time for me to go read about Satir's modes :-)
– cag51
1 hour ago
@cag51 And your comments also, ty. I might edit/add some "diplomacy explanation" to my answer later. I had some links to Satir here: interpersonal.stackexchange.com/q/20022/22996. On my phone, ttyl
– Jesse Steele
1 hour ago
@cag51 And your comments also, ty. I might edit/add some "diplomacy explanation" to my answer later. I had some links to Satir here: interpersonal.stackexchange.com/q/20022/22996. On my phone, ttyl
– Jesse Steele
1 hour ago
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
I would still take it up the ladder since that sounds like a stupid policy.
In my opinion, if she's not able to keep your interest, she should consider raising the level of the class, but there's only so much she can raise it without losing other students. It's not always possible to keep everyone's interest and you can't expect students to feign interest because it makes you feel important.
What does she care if you're quietly reading? It sounds like she childishly wants to be listened to. That's beyond wanting "good manners". She wants devotion.
You might as well complain to her dean. Even if you don't get what you want, if enough people complain, it's at least annoying for the dean who might pass the message on to her in one way or another.
It may be a reaction to past problems - students not being aware of important information because, even though physically present, they were mentally absent.
– Patricia Shanahan
2 hours ago
3
@PatriciaShanahan Most classes factor that kind of problem into grades using examinations rather than attendance.
– Neil G
2 hours ago
3
I agree that it is an unwise policy, but most universities will give their professor's considerable latitude and discretion. Something can be unwise, even clearly unwise, and still be well within a decision maker's authority.
– TimothyAWiseman
2 hours ago
I agree with both of you -- escalating is unlikely to get your points back, but this is such a stupid policy (insisting that your students waste time listening to material they already know) that I would still send a complaint anyway. (Though, groveling to the instructor to try to get the points back might be necessary until grades are finalized)
– cag51
2 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
I would still take it up the ladder since that sounds like a stupid policy.
In my opinion, if she's not able to keep your interest, she should consider raising the level of the class, but there's only so much she can raise it without losing other students. It's not always possible to keep everyone's interest and you can't expect students to feign interest because it makes you feel important.
What does she care if you're quietly reading? It sounds like she childishly wants to be listened to. That's beyond wanting "good manners". She wants devotion.
You might as well complain to her dean. Even if you don't get what you want, if enough people complain, it's at least annoying for the dean who might pass the message on to her in one way or another.
It may be a reaction to past problems - students not being aware of important information because, even though physically present, they were mentally absent.
– Patricia Shanahan
2 hours ago
3
@PatriciaShanahan Most classes factor that kind of problem into grades using examinations rather than attendance.
– Neil G
2 hours ago
3
I agree that it is an unwise policy, but most universities will give their professor's considerable latitude and discretion. Something can be unwise, even clearly unwise, and still be well within a decision maker's authority.
– TimothyAWiseman
2 hours ago
I agree with both of you -- escalating is unlikely to get your points back, but this is such a stupid policy (insisting that your students waste time listening to material they already know) that I would still send a complaint anyway. (Though, groveling to the instructor to try to get the points back might be necessary until grades are finalized)
– cag51
2 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
I would still take it up the ladder since that sounds like a stupid policy.
In my opinion, if she's not able to keep your interest, she should consider raising the level of the class, but there's only so much she can raise it without losing other students. It's not always possible to keep everyone's interest and you can't expect students to feign interest because it makes you feel important.
What does she care if you're quietly reading? It sounds like she childishly wants to be listened to. That's beyond wanting "good manners". She wants devotion.
You might as well complain to her dean. Even if you don't get what you want, if enough people complain, it's at least annoying for the dean who might pass the message on to her in one way or another.
I would still take it up the ladder since that sounds like a stupid policy.
In my opinion, if she's not able to keep your interest, she should consider raising the level of the class, but there's only so much she can raise it without losing other students. It's not always possible to keep everyone's interest and you can't expect students to feign interest because it makes you feel important.
What does she care if you're quietly reading? It sounds like she childishly wants to be listened to. That's beyond wanting "good manners". She wants devotion.
You might as well complain to her dean. Even if you don't get what you want, if enough people complain, it's at least annoying for the dean who might pass the message on to her in one way or another.
answered 3 hours ago
Neil G
36727
36727
It may be a reaction to past problems - students not being aware of important information because, even though physically present, they were mentally absent.
– Patricia Shanahan
2 hours ago
3
@PatriciaShanahan Most classes factor that kind of problem into grades using examinations rather than attendance.
– Neil G
2 hours ago
3
I agree that it is an unwise policy, but most universities will give their professor's considerable latitude and discretion. Something can be unwise, even clearly unwise, and still be well within a decision maker's authority.
– TimothyAWiseman
2 hours ago
I agree with both of you -- escalating is unlikely to get your points back, but this is such a stupid policy (insisting that your students waste time listening to material they already know) that I would still send a complaint anyway. (Though, groveling to the instructor to try to get the points back might be necessary until grades are finalized)
– cag51
2 hours ago
add a comment |
It may be a reaction to past problems - students not being aware of important information because, even though physically present, they were mentally absent.
– Patricia Shanahan
2 hours ago
3
@PatriciaShanahan Most classes factor that kind of problem into grades using examinations rather than attendance.
– Neil G
2 hours ago
3
I agree that it is an unwise policy, but most universities will give their professor's considerable latitude and discretion. Something can be unwise, even clearly unwise, and still be well within a decision maker's authority.
– TimothyAWiseman
2 hours ago
I agree with both of you -- escalating is unlikely to get your points back, but this is such a stupid policy (insisting that your students waste time listening to material they already know) that I would still send a complaint anyway. (Though, groveling to the instructor to try to get the points back might be necessary until grades are finalized)
– cag51
2 hours ago
It may be a reaction to past problems - students not being aware of important information because, even though physically present, they were mentally absent.
– Patricia Shanahan
2 hours ago
It may be a reaction to past problems - students not being aware of important information because, even though physically present, they were mentally absent.
– Patricia Shanahan
2 hours ago
3
3
@PatriciaShanahan Most classes factor that kind of problem into grades using examinations rather than attendance.
– Neil G
2 hours ago
@PatriciaShanahan Most classes factor that kind of problem into grades using examinations rather than attendance.
– Neil G
2 hours ago
3
3
I agree that it is an unwise policy, but most universities will give their professor's considerable latitude and discretion. Something can be unwise, even clearly unwise, and still be well within a decision maker's authority.
– TimothyAWiseman
2 hours ago
I agree that it is an unwise policy, but most universities will give their professor's considerable latitude and discretion. Something can be unwise, even clearly unwise, and still be well within a decision maker's authority.
– TimothyAWiseman
2 hours ago
I agree with both of you -- escalating is unlikely to get your points back, but this is such a stupid policy (insisting that your students waste time listening to material they already know) that I would still send a complaint anyway. (Though, groveling to the instructor to try to get the points back might be necessary until grades are finalized)
– cag51
2 hours ago
I agree with both of you -- escalating is unlikely to get your points back, but this is such a stupid policy (insisting that your students waste time listening to material they already know) that I would still send a complaint anyway. (Though, groveling to the instructor to try to get the points back might be necessary until grades are finalized)
– cag51
2 hours ago
add a comment |
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Do you mean that you were reading in class on only one day, but there is a possibility that you were penalized for this with two absences, or were you reading in class on multiple days?
– 1006a
4 hours ago
2
Administrators step in when things are extreme and the school's reputation may be affected, like failing everyone or giving everyone A's. Your argument is pretty weak and your injury (losing a few points) is trivial. You'd be better off nicely asking your teacher for another chance because you didn't realize reading wasn't allowed, and you had misjudged your own ability to multitask.
– A Simple Algorithm
2 hours ago
Are you certain she didn't accidentally mark you absent because she genuinely thought you were absent?
– Vaelus
1 hour ago